Fastball versus Dropball for 9 year old

[robertc3]

After reading the fastball vs. drop ball thread I have a related question. My daughter is 9 and has been pitching for almost a year. She is still developing consistent mechanics and the corresponding speed and accuracy. Sometimes she throws a bullet spin fastball, sometimes it is something between an 11/5 and a 12/6 spin. She isn't consciously doing something different and her grip is the same (4 seam fastball grip with thumb slightly off to the side as her hands are still not large enough to get her thumb in opposition to her middle finger). It is generally that when she is trying to throw harder she gets bullet spin, when she is thinking more about IR she gets closer to 12/6. The bullet spinning ball is coming off of the outside of her index finger. I think mostly she is just late with her IR and is releasing the ball before she rotates her forearm, but that may not be it. My question is, should I work with her to get the 12/6 spin now, or wait until later? When she gets the 12/6 spin there is a noticeable drop. It isn’t 8”, but it is noticeably more than when she throws the bullet spin. At this point I don’t see trying to simultaneously develop both pitches, so I need to pick one or the other. Advice?

 

[Sweet Lou]

I may be in the minority but at that age I'd work on perfecting the pitch she can throw for strikes most consistently and go from there.

and I'll qualify that by saying I am not a PC.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

If I could do it all over again I would go with the peel drop as the first pitch taught.

 

[JJsqueeze]

After reading the fastball vs. drop ball thread I have a related question. My daughter is 9 and has been pitching for almost a year. She is still developing consistent mechanics and the corresponding speed and accuracy. Sometimes she throws a bullet spin fastball, sometimes it is something between an 11/5 and a 12/6 spin. She isn't consciously doing something different and her grip is the same (4 seam fastball grip with thumb slightly off to the side as her hands are still not large enough to get her thumb in opposition to her middle finger). It is generally that when she is trying to throw harder she gets bullet spin, when she is thinking more about IR she gets closer to 12/6. The bullet spinning ball is coming off of the outside of her index finger. I think mostly she is just late with her IR and is releasing the ball before she rotates her forearm, but that may not be it. My question is, should I work with her to get the 12/6 spin now, or wait until later? When she gets the 12/6 spin there is a noticeable drop. It isn’t 8”, but it is noticeably more than when she throws the bullet spin. At this point I don’t see trying to simultaneously develop both pitches, so I need to pick one or the other. Advice?

I would second SLs response but add a little twist. I would perfect her mechanics and work for her maximum speed vs. strikes. If the mechanics are right the strikes will come. I am just a bucket dad and a coach, not a PC, but from what I have seen, the pitchers that come through my teams and focus on strikes invariably have a stiff arm/bowling/hello elbow delivery at 8/9/10 years old with anemic speed. They will be ok in 8u or 10u and then their pitching career is over if they don't then alter EVERTHING to an arm whip style. On our team this last year we had my daughter and another pitcher. My DD was like Crash in Bull Durham, threw fast balls all over the field. the other girl threw 28-32 over the middle every time. I trusted what I learned on this board and just focused on getting some mechanics right without worrying about accuracy. all season long I pitched the other kid 2 innings and my DD 1 because the other kid got more outs and didn't put girl's lives in jeopardy. My DD either hit a batter or struck them out (with more HBPs than Ks). Then she started getting a little control and became downright lethal in our little league. The point is, don't worry about spin except as an indicator for mechanics. I know that when my DD is pitching right then the spin is somewhere from 11-5 to 1-7 and when it comes in sideways she hit her hip. I don't think I've ever seen her throw bullet spin

 

[Rocketech1]

First off, she is likely pitching with a 11inch ball from 35feet so she isn't going to see much movement on a drop ball anyways. I agree with teaching the four seam grip (same as the peel drop grip). Continue to focus on getting good and tight 12-6 spin. Once she can hit the four corners consistently, introduce the flip change. Don't worry about the drop ball until 12u. You can be very effective with a consistent fastball and changeup at 10u. Why the flip change? because in my opinion it takes the most speed off of the pitch (about 25%) and you don't have to slow the arm down to make it be effective. Most kids i see with a circle change for example throw the pitch with too much velocity or slow the arm circle down to decrease the speed which is not ideal. The changeup mechanics should look just like the fast ball. Lastly find a good pitching coach and have DD take as many lessons as you can afford as she is building the foundation for good mechanics right now. Good luck.

 

[Rocketech1]

I would second SLs response but add a little twist. I would perfect her mechanics and work for her maximum speed vs. strikes. If the mechanics are right the strikes will come. I am just a bucket dad and a coach, not a PC, but from what I have seen, the pitchers that come through my teams and focus on strikes invariably have a stiff arm/bowling/hello elbow delivery at 8/9/10 years old with anemic speed. They will be ok in 8u or 10u and then their pitching career is over if they don't then alter EVERTHING to an arm whip style. On our team this last year we had my daughter and another pitcher. My DD was like Crash in Bull Durham, threw fast balls all over the field. the other girl threw 28-32 over the middle every time. I trusted what I learned on this board and just focused on getting some mechanics right without worrying about accuracy. all season long I pitched the other kid 2 innings and my DD 1 because the other kid got more outs and didn't put girl's lives in jeopardy. My DD either hit a batter or struck them out (with more HBPs than Ks). Then she started getting a little control and became downright lethal in our little league. The point is, don't worry about spin except as an indicator for mechanics. I know that when my DD is pitching right then the spin is somewhere from 11-5 to 1-7 and when it comes in sideways she hit her hip. I don't think I've ever seen her throw bullet spin

I don't think speed and accuracy are mutually exclusive. If you are throwing with good mechanics its almost impossible to not have good speed. But you need to practice at least 3x a week, almost year round to be a very effective pitcher. The 7 - 12 year olds that I have seen don't last long if they can't throw greater than 60% strikes in games. Because it shows that they don't have command of their pitches and will either walk too many batters and/or have too many wild pitches.

 

[JJsqueeze]

I don't think speed and accuracy are mutually exclusive. If you are throwing with good mechanics its almost impossible to not have good speed. But you need to practice at least 3x a week, almost year round to be a very effective pitcher. The 7 - 12 year olds that I have seen don't last long if they can't throw greater than 60% strikes in games. Because it shows that they don't have command of their pitches and will either walk too many batters and/or have too many wild pitches.

The only thing a 7 year old can "command" is their bladder, and even then it is touch and go. Grouping them with 12 year olds is ridiculous. 7 year olds and 12 year olds are worlds apart in development. Maybe the occasional prodigy can throw 60% strikes at 7 or 8 but for us mortals in the real world we just want them to get the basic motion down at that age.

 

[halskinner]

This is very common with young beginners. They strive for a release that is coming off the finger tips. But, they have a tendancy to release AS the hand cuts slightly to the glove side. This has the ball coming off the thumb side of the index finger, with a 'down and in / screwball spin and movement.

At that age a down and in is very effective against the batters. Point out that she is throwing a screwball on accident. Then have her working on making it better. Dont say its a bad thing, its a very GOOD thing.

Let work on the drop coming off the fingertips but ALSO work on her new screwball pitch.

Make sure she SEES how both move and move differently.

This will give her a ton of new confidence. Watch the looks on her face.

 

[Rocketech1]

The only thing a 7 year old can "command" is their bladder, and even then it is touch and go. Grouping them with 12 year olds is ridiculous. 7 year olds and 12 year olds are worlds apart in development. Maybe the occasional prodigy can throw 60% strikes at 7 or 8 but for us mortals in the real world we just want them to get the basic motion down at that age.

I think you might be missing my point. You can teach a newbie, whether they are 7 or 12, how to pitch consistently and with speed, as long as the mechanics are sound. The problem with flamethrowers with no accuracy is that unless you have a very patient coach, they won't get much valuable time in the circle which is critical to their development. There are plenty of 8U pitchers that are very accurate, it really comes down to the kids that want to put in the effort to get better, have a supportive (if not crazy parent) and have a good pitching coach to work with them on a regular basis. At least that is my experience.

 

[Sweet Lou]

I think you might be missing my point. You can teach a newbie, whether they are 7 or 12, how to pitch consistently and with speed, as long as the mechanics are sound. The problem with flamethrowers with no accuracy is that unless you have a very patient coach, they won't get much valuable time in the circle which is critical to their development. There are plenty of 8U pitchers that are very accurate, it really comes down to the kids that want to put in the effort to get better, have a supportive (if not crazy parent) and have a good pitching coach to work with them on a regular basis. At least that is my experience.

I can attest to this first hand. An 8U team threw a 4 inning perfect game with no coach pitch against us last weekend and followed that up by 1 hitting the next team they played.

And yes unless an 8U team has very limited options the wild flame thrower will not see a lot of circle time.

That said the very accurate 8Us seem to the exception rather than the rule. Most seem to fall in the 40 - 60 % range on strikes depending of the day. At least that's been my experience this summer. Milage may vary for others.