Extra move

[TDS]

IMO, clean up the sequence and the hitch goes away.

 

[stiksdad]

I will expect those on both sides of the fence to jump my big briar butt after this post. But here goes, this is one of my pet peeves. If I go back 2 or 3 years to a clinic I was doing with Bustos/Carrier somewhere in the wilds of SE Indiana. I think it was maybe Ohio I forget as I get to my tender years like Howard is. My dd asked Crystal if she had a few moments to look at her swing as she was stumped by something. Being Crystal she dropped what she was doing, took the dd to the gym and soft tossed for close to an hour. Never said a word the entire time. After it was over when she was leaving I asked her what the damage was, she looked at me and I waited for the answer from the greatest female hitter hitter ever to be the equivalent of the red sea parting or some magical words of secret wisdom known to only a few and protected by all.

What she said to me was as simple as it gets and I have used it over and over to overzealous fathers....... She needs to mature into her swing...... That was it no parting of the red sea, no trumpets, nothing. Just as plain as the nose on my face.

I have been told by alot of people that my dd has a hitch in her swing. You know what? Its ok. Dont get so caught up in the perfection of mechanics that you forget that she is an individual. There are a ton of good ball players that dont do everything just right. No one does. The Hanson Principle tells us what we need to do to emulate mlb players, but yet those same models we drool over went to the hall of fame batting 3 to 400..... do you understand that means they failed 6 or 7 times trying to do it?

Do the best you can with your dd, be patient, consistent, understanding and encouraging Using common sense in her approach to her goals what ever they may be and you will succeed and someday have not only the pleasure of watching your dd at the next level but seeing her do it in her own fashion.


Tim

Tim, though there was little technical analysis in your post, that most certainly was some of the best advice I have seen on this board. "patient, consistent, understanding and encouraging", no matter what hitting approach you use to teach if you follow that I believe you will have success as an instructor.

 

[PEPPERS]

What do the coaches in their instruction say about the hip cock during these clinics?

My notes where the hands were referenced this was 2010.

Avoid Extremes and keep it as simple as possible.
Grip way out in the finger tips – not in the palm – loose grip – finger in palm finger slips out easily - in the finger does not slip out easy.
Door knocking knuckles – some batting loves have stripes on knuckles to help line up the knuckles.
Door knocking knuckles lined up = better bat control - helps a quick release of bat head and extension.
We keep hands high – like a roller coaster the coaster drops at the top of the incline and gathers speed as it comes down steep hill.
Hands come down like a fast roller coaster (Example kids roller coaster has small hill and is slow compared to adult roller coaster with steep drop the decent is much fast) hands should come down like a plane landing not a helicopter landing.
Elbows in upside down V as elbows resting on a table, make a bicep for where the hands are to go at the starting point.
Bat knob and hands about three inches back from the ear at extension.
Back to go forward with (no dead stop hitters).
Hands small circle – make a small C – then a clock wise circle - easy and slow no extremes.
Launch - hands and front foot separate or (Walk away from the hands).
Think of a loose rubber band tied to knob of the bat to the front ankle – launch stretch rubber band tight, fires the big muscles in the core.
Keep hands close to the body hands inside the path of the ball.

 

[Wellphyt]

IMO, clean up the sequence and the hitch goes away.

So Ted Williams, Jimmy Foxx, Hand Greenberg, Barry Bonds, Michelle Moultrie, Jennie Finch, Katie Cochran and countless other elite hitters needed/need to clean up their sequence

The hitch is a hand cock from a low and more back handset. When Eithier and Kent do the same thing from a higher and more forward handset, it's not called a hitch. IMO the best way to understand the hand cock, is to understand the overhand throw sequence and apply it to hitting.

 

[TDS]

So Ted Williams, Jimmy Foxx, Hand Greenberg, Barry Bonds, Michelle Moultrie, Jennie Finch, Katie Cochran and countless other elite hitters needed/need to clean up their sequence

The hitch is a hand cock from a low and more back handset. When Eithier and Kent do the same thing from a higher and more forward handset, it's not called a hitch. IMO the best way to understand the hand cock, is to understand the overhand throw sequence and apply it to hitting.

Not trying to be argumentative here. Most kids hitch using their arms omitting the upper trunk. My point is include the trunk in the sequence and the hitch becomes less a source for recruiting power via the arms.

 

[PEPPERS]

Originally Posted by Bouldersdad
I will expect those on both sides of the fence to jump my big briar butt after this post. But here goes, this is one of my pet peeves. If I go back 2 or 3 years to a clinic I was doing with Bustos/Carrier somewhere in the wilds of SE Indiana. I think it was maybe Ohio I forget as I get to my tender years like Howard is. My dd asked Crystal if she had a few moments to look at her swing as she was stumped by something. Being Crystal she dropped what she was doing, took the dd to the gym and soft tossed for close to an hour. Never said a word the entire time. After it was over when she was leaving I asked her what the damage was, she looked at me and I waited for the answer from the greatest female hitter hitter ever to be the equivalent of the red sea parting or some magical words of secret wisdom known to only a few and protected by all.

What she said to me was as simple as it gets and I have used it over and over to overzealous fathers....... She needs to mature into her swing...... That was it no parting of the red sea, no trumpets, nothing. Just as plain as the nose on my face.

I have been told by alot of people that my dd has a hitch in her swing. You know what? Its ok. Dont get so caught up in the perfection of mechanics that you forget that she is an individual. There are a ton of good ball players that dont do everything just right. No one does. The Hanson Principle tells us what we need to do to emulate mlb players, but yet those same models we drool over went to the hall of fame batting 3 to 400..... do you understand that means they failed 6 or 7 times trying to do it?

Do the best you can with your dd, be patient, consistent, understanding and encouraging Using common sense in her approach to her goals what ever they may be and you will succeed and someday have not only the pleasure of watching your dd at the next level but seeing her do it in her own fashion.


Tim

Just found this post Tim.

Tim I will not jump on you at all if a hitter has a hitch and it she is successful I would never say a word, as I stated earlier. The thing is I would not include it in any instruction IMO. Some kids are athletic enough they can successful include a hitch or other moves in the swing with great success. The person starting this threat considered a problem for this hitter and I was directing my response reference his post.

I had the pleasure of meeting Bustos at a clinic she did in Atlanta, people who have not met her or had her work with their kid do not appreciate what a fine lady and instructor she is, if anyone has the opportunity to go to one of her clinics I would highly recommend going, well worth the time and money.

A side note when I played years ago, an old adage was to mess with some ones swing you would tell them they were successful because of the little hitch in the swing and get them thinking about it and it would mess with their swing.

 

[Wellphyt]

My notes where the hands were referenced this was 2010.

Thanks Peppers. Hopefully this will help further the discussion. I must say I'm sitting here chuckling to myself after reading your notes. This is the part that got me smiling:

We keep hands high – like a roller coaster the coaster drops at the top of the incline and gathers speed as it comes down steep hill.
Hands come down like a fast roller coaster (Example kids roller coaster has small hill and is slow compared to adult roller coaster with steep drop the decent is much fast) hands should come down like a plane landing not a helicopter landing.

It sounds to me like these coaches are teaching hitters to lower their hands to shoulder height to launch their swing. This is how you perform a hand cock from a higher handset. If you start with your hands held high when throwing overhand, the throwing hand arcs down and back like a "plane landing" when the hands break. This is what I've been saying.

If you lower the hands from a high handset, it's considered good. If you do the same thing from a low handset, everyone calls it a hitch and it's bad. This confirms my suspicion that coaches and instructors are teaching style as part of technique because they don't truly understand the underlying sequence. So if a player shows up to Alabama with a low handset and a hitch, the coaches will want to change her to a high handset with a hitch. Of course the coaches don't see it as hitch from a high handset because they don't understand how the hand break in the overhand throw relates to hitting and how it is all linked to the hip cock and the sequence.

No mention of the hip cock in you notes; which doesn't surprise me. Epstein's 'On Target" dvds don't mention the hip cock either. It took me five years into my journey with my DD before I learned about the importance of the hip cock in "The Science of Hitting".

 

[Wellphyt]

Not trying to be argumentative here. Most kids hitch using their arms omitting the upper trunk. My point is include the trunk in the sequence and the hitch becomes less a source for recruiting power via the arms.

TDS, I've been involved in the fastpitch community long enough to know it's pointless to try and change old ingrained beliefs. Hopefully somebody out there is reading along and will at least keep an open mind and experiment. IMO the under-the-hood movements in a good sequence should be the same regardless of the handset. There is no logic in saying it's ok to lower the hands from a high handset, but not ok to lower the hands from a low handset. It's the same move from different handsets. My point is that the sequence is the sequence regardless of the handset. The sequence is the absolute, the handset is the hitter's personal style choice.

 

[TDS]

The sequence is the absolute

I agree. I think the grey area here is some kids hitch with the arms (straight up and down) only and omit the upper trunk as being part of the sequence.

 

[mad hornet]

Not trying to be argumentative here. Most kids hitch using their arms omitting the upper trunk. My point is include the trunk in the sequence and the hitch becomes less a source for recruiting power via the arms.

Is this bottom photo a good example? It looks like a 5-3 groundout.