Extra move

[mad hornet]

I have a 12u player who has an extra move with her hands in between her load and beginning the swing. Some people refer to it as hitching and it is usually (I think) a subconscious timing move. It is really affecting her ability to make solid contact especially with high speed pitches. Generally this is a downward movement and then up, but she doesn't make it all the way up. The result is that she is usually late and / or misses / fouls, or makes poor contact.

Today we were working with her and took her in front of a large mirror and told her to take dry swings and watch herself. I would say "stance", "load", and "hit". While doing this she was able to see and feel the extra move, but even in front of the mirror she couldn't stop herself from doing it. I told her to work on this at home in front of a mirror for a few minutes every day.

I would be interested in hearing from others who were able to help a player break this habit.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

A video would help of course ... but based on what you wrote, I'd double check that she's moving her hips forward during what you refer to as an extra move. Do that, and you may find what you consider to be an 'extra move' ends up being helpful to this girl. If her sequence is correct, and she is struggling with fast pitching, then also make sure that she is initiating her swing sequence "early and slow".

 

[Wellphyt]

Does her hitch look something like what these players are doing?

 

[mad hornet]

OK I just finished up reading the Drills: Hands Dropping thread and saw this was the same topic.

This girl's move is similar to the videos but her timing is too slow so that extra move is taking time away that she needs to get to the ball - AND she doens't get her hands all the way back up so she really struggles with high strikes. I also use the instructo-tee with her and she hates it - because she struggles with it.

So, FFF and Wellphyt from what I saw in the other thread I gather you don't think we should try to break her of this. What do you suggest as a cure?

 

[Wellphyt]

Lots of reasons why kids are late. Logically speaking, if you have time for a hip cock/coil you have time for a hand cock/hitch because they happen at the same time.

Using similar logic, if you are going to coach the hand cock out of kids, then you might as well coach out their hip cock. Same can be said about the stretch part of the sequence. Each of those movements take time to perform.

Of course any move in hitting can be overdone. Perhaps this player is lowering her hands down to her waist. Most players could never pull off lowering their hands as far as Cochran does.

 

[Wellphyt]

OK I just finished up reading the Drills: Hands Dropping thread and saw this was the same topic.

This girl's move is similar to the videos but her timing is too slow so that extra move is taking time away that she needs to get to the ball - AND she doens't get her hands all the way back up so she really struggles with high strikes. I also use the instructo-tee with her and she hates it - because she struggles with it.

So, FFF and Wellphyt from what I saw in the other thread I gather you don't think we should try to break her of this. What do you suggest as a cure?

I was typing my last post when you posted this. If she isn't lowering her hands way down then I doubt the hitch is the problem. Without seeing video, I suspect the problem could be a very long swing. Maybe some bat drag. I would just make sure you are working on the right problem. In my experience, when natural movements get coached out of kids, other problems are created and you begin playing whack-a-mole.

 

[PEPPERS]

A different opinion.

I see some young hitters that drop their hands and start the swing with their hands in the drop position (between the chest and waist) A hitch where the hitter drops the hands then gets the hands back in a proper load position prior to initiating the swing is not as big a problem.

The problem I do see with the hitch is you have to include it in the timing sequence. A hitter has 4/10 or a second to swing against the elite pitchers, taking a roundabout hand path is a disadvantage to the hitter IMO, although some can be successful using hitch. The better pitchers a hitter sees as they get older the more of a challenge it is to be successful having a hitch in the swing.

The hitch is in a hitters muscle memory not a quick fix, I like the matrix drill and think elbow, knob and barrel to contact.

This is from my notes at an Alabama Clinic in 2010.
Hand path.
The hitter will take her hands directly to the inside of the ball (not circular/stirring the pot) while keeping the barrel (barrel awareness) on the path of the pitch this creates a short swing and more consistent contact; hands go a direct path back and up, forward and down. Think of it as a plane coming in for a landing and NOT a helicopter landing straight down.

 

[RichK]

Without seeing it, I'm going to bet the OP's hitter is dropping her hands and then her next move is NOT bring them back up as Wellphyt describes to create a hand cock as part of a good sequence but to "reach them back" to create leverage that she is not otherwise creating (with a proper hip coil/uncoil sequence). It's a guess, but I've seen it with hitters who are good athletes, who understand they want to create some leverage or resistance that helps them to power their swing, but just don't know how to do i properly withing the context of a good swing sequence.

Dropping, slotting and reaching back with an arm bar WILL create leverage and allow you to pound the ball early in your career but you'll be lost against real pitching.

Matrix drills are good for creating swing image. I like one-hand trainers, top hand especially, to begin to understand how the hand cock really works.

 

[Wellphyt]

The hitch is really a hand cock. Notice how in the clips that I posted that the hands lower when the front foot is lifted. Batters lift their front foot in order to cock their hips. The hand cock occurs in sync with the hip cock. IMO it makes no logical sense to say that you have time for a hip cock but not a hand cock, when they happen at the same time and take the same amount of time to perform.

If you remove the hand cock from the sequence, what do you tell the student to do with their hands when they cock their hips? What you do is come up with drills to try and force the student to unnaturally regain the stretch part of the sequence and keep them from dropping their hands. What I see happening are instructors/coaches creating the problem, then coming up with drills to fix the problem they created. Of course the instructor/coach doesn't know they created the problem to begin with.

There is a reason why the players in the clips I posted have smooth, fluid looking swings. They have a natural sequence where their lower and upper body are in sync. IMO the more fluid the swing the better chance the player has at hitting good pitching.

I know I'm in the minority here. The idea that a "hitch is bad" has been around ever since I can remember. The argument against it is that hitters don't have time to cock their hands. I hear it all the time at the ball park. I heard it myself when I played. Like I said, if you believe that there is not enough time for a hand cock, then you must also believe there is not enough time for a hip cock. Discussions like this reinforce my belief that the hitting sequence is not well understood.

"Don't worry if you hitch a little. Everybody says it's awful, but York hitched, Foxx hitched, Greenberg hitched. I dropped down a little as a cocking action, but the important thing is not to drop your hands too much, because you'll have to bring them back up and that cost time and can disturb your rhythm". -- Ted Williams

Notice how Ted mentions "rhythm". I prefer to let the kids figure out their own rhythm, instead of dictating to them what their rhythm should be. When the hand cock gets removed, the player's natural rhythm gets disturbed. Which leads to the person who removed the hand cock having to come with drills and clever training devices to get the player back in some sort of sequence. The irony is, that the ones messing up the kid's sequence, are the ones that look the smartest, because they are ones that come up with all the drills and training devices to fix the issues that are created when the kids get out of sequence.

In the Ted quote above; you can replace York with Finch, Foxx with Cochran and Greenberg with Moultrie.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

OK I just finished up reading the Drills: Hands Dropping thread and saw this was the same topic.

This girl's move is similar to the videos but her timing is too slow so that extra move is taking time away that she needs to get to the ball - AND she doens't get her hands all the way back up so she really struggles with high strikes. I also use the instructo-tee with her and she hates it - because she struggles with it.

So, FFF and Wellphyt from what I saw in the other thread I gather you don't think we should try to break her of this. What do you suggest as a cure?

A 'hitch' can be turned into a productive positive. My advice ... before removing such a movement pattern, see if you can first exploit it. That said, some people that hitch don't know how to sequence it correctly until shown. Begin by observing when she hitches ... does she do so as she loads her rear leg ... does she then load her hands rearward as her hips move/coil forward? Does she even move/coil her hips forward as a setup to swing? I've had success with some hitchers by simply telling them to move their hips forward as they hitch ... and they quickly fell into a productive sequence.

Bottom-line for me though is that a hitch can be turned into a productive movement pattern ... and suggest folks think twice before removing them from a hitter.