Enlighten me on hitting

[Mark H]

Mark, sorry it took me so long to answer your post. I will say that Tom already did an excellent job answering your question. He is a lot more thorough and detailed than myself. However in the interest of discussion here is my 2 cents.

I believe the weight on the back foot is primarily governed by the angle of tilt in the axis of rotation. As the lead arm works up or down to adjust to high and low pitches the angle of the shoulders change accordingly. The shoulders are more tilted for lower pitches and more level for higher pitches. I believe that the weight on the back foot is set involuntary by the body to maintain balance as the shoulders tilt.

Epstein briefly mentions the hinging of the back knee on my "Torque Drill" dvd. He mentions it in the context of; "we're not swinging up in the rotational swing, we're just getting our body back to be level to the ball, not level to the ground." He immediately follows those comments with a reference to how rotational hitters don't groove their swings. He's clearly making a comparison to linear hitting and the fact that rotational hitters always hit with a tilted axis. He also begins the comment with "What the player will wind up doing". Which I understand to mean that hinging the back knee is not a teachable movement that a hitter would drill on.

The area where the hinging of the back knee really comes into play is when a hitter gets fooled on an offspeed pitch. I'm actually impressed that Tom knew about this aspect of Mike's teachings. When a hitter is fooled on an offspeed pitch, hinging the back knee buys time and allows the hitter to keep their weight back and maintain balance. This is the one instance where the hitter will have more weight on the back foot than is customary.

I saw a Dominican player do this a couple of nights ago during the World Baseball Classic. It was very impressive and I made sure to play it back several times for my DD.

I view Epstein's material in it's entirety and don't cherry pick certain aspects of what he teaches. So when it comes to the behavior of the back foot I take into consideration all of his teachings including:

1. The heel of the back foot must come off the ground when the hips are initiated as illustrated in the #2 position of the "Numbers Drill".
2. Collasping the backside is really, really bad.
3. The lead arm/elbow works up for low pitches and down for high pitches and shoulder tilt varies accordingly.
4. The swing must be launched from a balanced position.
5. The hitter's axis is tilted at contact and follow-through.
6. The perfect swing is the adjustment the hitter makes to the oncoming pitch.

Epstein's material has traditionally been geared to distinguishing the differences between rotational hitting and linear hitting. In the future it wouldn't surpise me if he makes some adjustments in phraseology to differentiate himself from all the other rotational material flooding the market.

One thing at a time. Tell me your view of this shoulder tilt. How it happens. In what plane and so on.

 

[Mark H]

By the way, I may be slow getting back to you. I have a family member in the hospital.

 

[Slapper23]

Note to others. If Tom or Slapper are talking about Englishbey, you can be sure it's distorted. Carry on.

Mark, we are not distorting anything. The truth hurts, I guess. Don't run away from it. It is what it is. I'm sure Steve's stuff will help some to improve their hitting, especially with some of the crap taught out there. And I'm not saying his stuff is crap, but it does not represent the ML swing pattern, IMO.

Tom and I describe how the "PCR pattern" is different than what ML hitters do. It's two completely different ways of creating momentum and movement. I know; I've studied Steve and Nyman's stuff intently - even used it. But I learned more and moved on. Didn't go over well at EH.com that I was disagreeing. My leaving was best for me and EH.com.

Mike

 

[Slapper23]

Mark, putting hitting repartee aside, in all seriousness, I hope everything works out for the best for your loved one.

Mike

 

[tom.guerry]

Ditto, hope all turns out well on the home front.

 

[tom.guerry]

Well -

Here is some fairly recent discussion with Mark on Epstein, "cally jr" is the purest Epstein intructor (certified but with some additional wrinkles) in the thread:

12yo clips - Baseball Fever

Maybe when Mark has time he can update us on Englishbey info. Slapper and teacherman were as familiar with this as anyone until they became disillusioned/left/were cast out. Maybe the apporach has evolved/changed.

Englishbey has stated that he has made enough posts in open forums to undertsand his work. I kept up with thousands of posts from Nyman and Englishbey for years but never worked in person with Englishbey although I have been sent numerous videos of his clinics, usually from disillusioned parents looking for deprogramming.

But as Mark says, what do I know. I just sit on the couch and fantasize.

 

[Cannonball]

Well -

Here is some fairly recent discussion with Mark on Epstein, "cally jr" is the purest Epstein intructor (certified but with some additional wrinkles) in the thread:

12yo clips - Baseball Fever

Maybe when Mark has time he can update us on Englishbey info. Slapper and teacherman were as familiar with this as anyone until they became disillusioned/left/were cast out. Maybe the apporach has evolved/changed.

Englishbey has stated that he has made enough posts in open forums to undertsand his work. I kept up with thousands of posts from Nyman and Englishbey for years but never worked in person with Englishbey although I have been sent numerous videos of his clinics, usually from disillusioned parents looking for deprogramming.

But as Mark says, what do I know. I just sit on the couch and fantasize.

I can't speak for Slapper. I believe if one such as Mark searched EH.com, he could produce a quote from Teacherman after a visit with Englishbey and within 2 weeks of him leaving EH.com where he stated that he was not doing things correctly and so demonstrated he did not know what Englishbey was promoting in a swing. I am certain that I have seen that quote. I don't have access to EH.com and do know it is there. Also, contained there are comments by SE denoucing the often referenced notion by teacherman that SE had stated that Teacherman knew his stuff better than other members. Mark, again, if so inclined you can look that up. Again, I am currently, as of this date, not a member of EH.com but was once and so, I'm posting this for the sake of honesty and clarity. Again, I can't speak for Slapper since I know nothing of his time at EH.com other than he was once a member.

 

[tom.guerry]

cannon -

rather than posting this for clarity, posting what the E-H crowd actually currently believes would lend clarity.

i guess it's "proprietary".

 

[Ken Krause]

I want to issue everyone a caution on this thread. It is started to get heated above the level that is allowed and appropriate.

Please refrain from personal attacks and statements. Stick with the facts as you see them. There's a lot of valuable discussion, but we will close you out if your comments are disrespectful to others. Thanks you.

 

[Cannonball]

Ken,

I simply made a post in making sure that the facts are presented. I'll restrain from further posting and try to add content. However, your challenge is going to be ...

Edited to add:

I do apologize! I guess old habits die hard!

I want to issue everyone a caution on this thread. It is started to get heated above the level that is allowed and appropriate.

Please refrain from personal attacks and statements. Stick with the facts as you see them. There's a lot of valuable discussion, but we will close you out if your comments are disrespectful to others. Thanks you.