Educate me about the riseball

[DrRiello]

before my girl gave up pitching due to shoulder issues,
she was in the midst of developing a really awesome riseball as a 14U playing 18U showcases.
It was a thing of beauty.
Not overly fast, she threw it about 52-ish, and her drop at he time was about 56-ish for comparison.
But it had that "magic" of a pure backspinning ball with decent revs (26-30rps).
Because of the lack of top speed it worked for her as an "off-speed" pitch. (and then her change was a few clicks even slower...)
Because of the lack of top speed, she did not get a ton of swing-and-miss strikes with it, up in the zone
BUT I do not recall a single batter ever barrelling one up. LOTS of foul tips and pop-ups.
She threw it best just above the knees. Because she also had decent "tunnelling" with her delivery,
her rise at the knees produced a LOT of backwards K's.

Awesome. This is dd first year throwing it. She’s at about 25.5 rps. Not horrible. 14 yo. I won’t expect s/o with it either but as you say pop ups and fouls. We plan on change and drop getting the s/o. Looking forward to seeing her use it in games this spring.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tatonka]

I am curious as time has gone by and many pitching coaches seem to have altered their approach to teaching this (and other) pitch...what is the preferred grip and hand/finger/wrist movement out there to produce the 12-6 backspin that constitutes a true riseball? I'm sure there will be differing opinions on what works and what is best and that some will simply say to experiment and find what works best for each individual athlete. Karate chop with the side of the hand? Keep the thumb pointing towards 3rd base? Using a double ball to get the feel of the ball and seams rolling off the side of the index finger? Bill, I saw an older (?) video of you using the double ball with an index finger tip type of grip and turning the balls over (white ball on top at the start and turning it over at release) which made sense but then I saw somewhere a Rick Pauly double ball video (with tape on the balls) and it was semingly completely different?

Sorry for all those seemingly random questions but that's only a short list of what comes up as you try to research this pitch! DD is able to throw it fairly well now but as mentioned we're trying to really perfect the spin in an effort to disrupt the airflow on top of the ball and have it break (drop) less. Help? Thoughts/ Ideas?

 

[Vertigo]

Dd really worked on her rise a ton this winter. She has been achieving very good backspin with the pitch. We just had a TB scrimmage this past Sunday against another team (several D1 commits) and she was throwing it low in the zone where it would come up to about chest height at the plate. Lots of swings and misses. She probably tops out at 61-62 on a good day - curve is fastest pitch, which is her go-to. I would say probably cruises upper 50’s. Rise probably hits about 56-57. Seems to be working very well for her.

 

[Hillhouse]

I am curious as time has gone by and many pitching coaches seem to have altered their approach to teaching this (and other) pitch...what is the preferred grip and hand/finger/wrist movement out there to produce the 12-6 backspin that constitutes a true riseball? I'm sure there will be differing opinions on what works and what is best and that some will simply say to experiment and find what works best for each individual athlete. Karate chop with the side of the hand? Keep the thumb pointing towards 3rd base? Using a double ball to get the feel of the ball and seams rolling off the side of the index finger? Bill, I saw an older (?) video of you using the double ball with an index finger tip type of grip and turning the balls over (white ball on top at the start and turning it over at release) which made sense but then I saw somewhere a Rick Pauly double ball video (with tape on the balls) and it was semingly completely different?

Sorry for all those seemingly random questions but that's only a short list of what comes up as you try to research this pitch! DD is able to throw it fairly well now but as mentioned we're trying to really perfect the spin in an effort to disrupt the airflow on top of the ball and have it break (drop) less. Help? Thoughts/ Ideas?

I'd love to see the Pauly video you're talking about to see and understand what he was doing and talking about. I don't understand how tape helps anything on a doubleball.

While some grips have more advantages than others, there's no such thing as a "wrong grip". What works for some may not work for others. As long as the pitcher is getting 4 seams going as close to backward as possible, then you have a good grip. In my career, I've tried just about every grip on the planet, especially as a kid. I'd see someone with a good riseball, ask how they held it. Then I'd see a better riseball pitcher and ask how THEY held it. In the course of this 5 year experimental phase of learning, it wasn't until I understood that the FINGERS spin the ball, not the wrist that I would finally get the ball spinning correct. The wrist is responsible for the majority of bulletspinning pitches. Various grips make the wrist turn easier, promote less finger usage, and don't forget that more hand on the ball means less speed on the pitch. All of that said, the ultimate goal is 4 seams spinning backward.

Bill

 

[Tatonka]

I'd love to see the Pauly video you're talking about to see and understand what he was doing and talking about. I don't understand how tape helps anything on a doubleball.

Bill

Thanks Bill. The Pauly video came on (autoplay) after watching a Youtube video of a guy making a double ball.

Ah, just found it again! Obviously more than one way to skin a cat. Here's the Pauly video I spoke of:

And of course there's some other's out there using a taped double ball as well. Completely agree that the objective is getting the seams spinning backwards. DD and I need to work on and think about the consequences of trying these various drills...the last thing we want is to build in some bad mechanics or flaws.

 

[Hillhouse]

Thanks Bill. The Pauly video came on (autoplay) after watching a Youtube video of a guy making a double ball.

Ah, just found it again! Obviously more than one way to skin a cat. Here's the Pauly video I spoke of:

And of course there's some other's out there using a taped double ball as well. Completely agree that the objective is getting the seams spinning backwards. DD and I need to work on and think about the consequences of trying these various drills...the last thing we want is to build in some bad mechanics or flaws.

Fascinating. Personally, I use the double ball 100% differently than Rick does in this video. I have them constructed differently than Rick does, and I don't use the tape on the balls.

Bill

 

[Fury_Mike]

A little off topic, but is her foot legal?

 

[Tatonka]

Fascinating. Personally, I use the double ball 100% differently than Rick does in this video. I have them constructed differently than Rick does, and I don't use the tape on the balls.

Bill

I know, that's why I'm asking my original question.

 

[DrRiello]

A little off topic, but is her foot legal?

Technically the foot needs to be in constant contact with the runner. Will the call it? Is it a competitive advantage?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk