Educate me about the riseball

[BT3100]

If the spin revs aren't high enough (30rps+) and/or axis aren't correct (12:6) - then this is what I would expect.

Yep
I still think under 58 doesn't have that late break needed to get swings

 

[corlay]

Is this off speed rise an effective pitch in the game? Or is it better to zip a bullet spin fastball that will probably have less total drop high in the zone?

bullet spin "riseballs" can certainly have their place and can be effective - somewhat.

With a bullet spin, you are pretty much regulated to the very top of the zone - or they tend to get pounded.
Real riseballs can be effective at all heights.

But you are right - there is an art in striking the right balance of revs, axis, and speed.
I mentioned Rachel Garcia above. She doesn't throw a true riseball, but her "riseball" is VERY effective.

 

[corlay]

Yep
I still think under 58 doesn't have that late break needed to get swings

Please describe what you mean by "late break" as it applies to a riseball.

In my view, real riseballs don't "break".
They "float", "drop less", "decelerate", etc. (<<<all GREAT for disrupting a hitter's ability to predict and time...)
But "break"? not so sure about that, unless spin axis is tilted, and the ball "tails" some...

 

[grmerrill]

bullet spin "riseballs" can certainly have their place and can be effective - somewhat.

With a bullet spin, you are pretty much regulated to the very top of the zone - or they tend to get pounded.
Real riseballs can be effective at all heights.

But you are right - there is an art in striking the right balance of revs, axis, and speed.
I mentioned Rachel Garcia above. She doesn't throw a true riseball, but her "riseball" is VERY effective.

Without the correct spin it isn't a riseball. A "bullet spin riseball" is a fastball up.

We use this video to explain the effect of velocity and backspin.

 

[Hillhouse]

I'll take your word for it but sub 60s like high fast balls.. no late break at all

Here is video of Jeremy Manley warming up before a game, literally just lobbing the ball keeping his arm going before the game. If you go to the 25 second mark, you'lll see him put backspin on it. I don't think Jeremy was throwing 58, 50, or even 45 mph here.

 

[corlay]

Here is video of Jeremy Manley warming up before a game, literally just lobbing the ball keeping his arm going before the game. If you go to the 25 second mark, you'lll see him put backspin on it. I don't think Jeremy was throwing 58, 50, or even 45 mph here.

excellent!

I think most young pitchers, and even collegiate ones, never obsessively pursue the riseball to perfection. (or the drop ball for that matter!)
Why? because it's hard!

The vast majority that think they "have" a riseball are lacking in one or more of these aspects:
Spin rate (rps)
Spin axis
Speed (mph)

axis being the most elusive, I think.

When you see a true riseball - you know it!

 

[Hillhouse]

Even throwing the ball easy and warming up, a few of those riseballs appeared to be going up as the catcher caught them. And I can speak from experience, he has backspin and it's very tight.

 

[DrRiello]

excellent!

I think most young pitchers, and even collegiate ones, never obsessively pursue the riseball to perfection. (or the drop ball for that matter!)
Why? because it's hard!

The vast majority that think they "have" a riseball are lacking in one or more of these aspects:
Spin rate (rps)
Spin axis
Speed (mph)

axis being the most elusive, I think.

When you see a true riseball - you know it!

I true rise is very deceptive. It “floats”. “Scoots”. Very weird.
When dd throws it her catcher 50% of the time will say , woah , after catching it. Sometimes even missed it off the glove. And that’s at 48mph. True backspin though.


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[corlay]

I tried rise is very deceptive. It “floats”. “Scoots”. Very weird.
When dd throws it her catcher 50% of the time will say , woah , after catching it. Sometimes even missed it off the glove. And that’s at 48mph. True backspin though.

before my girl gave up pitching due to shoulder issues,
she was in the midst of developing a really awesome riseball as a 14U playing 18U showcases.
It was a thing of beauty.
Not overly fast, she threw it about 52-ish, and her drop at he time was about 56-ish for comparison.
But it had that "magic" of a pure backspinning ball with decent revs (26-30rps).
Because of the lack of top speed it worked for her as an "off-speed" pitch. (and then her change was a few clicks even slower...)
Because of the lack of top speed, she did not get a ton of swing-and-miss strikes with it, up in the zone
BUT I do not recall a single batter ever barrelling one up. LOTS of foul tips and pop-ups.
She threw it best just above the knees. Because she also had decent "tunnelling" with her delivery,
her rise at the knees produced a LOT of backwards K's.

 

[Tatonka]

We'll never get folks to agree on the description of what movement a Riseball actually has (or doesn't have). I believe it is "breaking less" and not dropping, which the mind interprets as moving up.