Do your players really hit >.600?

[Rolling Hard]

✔

( have known several tb coaches who were timing catchers pop times from when the ball was coming out of the catcher's hand. Supposed to be from contact!)

This is getting off topic but I believe pop time should be timed from sound of ball into catchers glove to sound of SS slapping 2nd base. This would incorporate the catchers accuracy into the equation and give a better metric to evaluate the catchers overall value.
If the throw is 5 feet high and 3 feet wide, how long would it take for the SS to get glove in position to tag the runner? .5 second? So now your 1.65 pop time would become 2.15. Not so good anymore.

 

[radness]

This is getting off topic but I believe pop time should be timed from sound of ball into catchers glove to sound of SS slapping 2nd base. This would incorporate the catchers accuracy into the equation and give a better metric to evaluate the catchers overall value.
If the throw is 5 feet high and 3 feet wide, how long would it take for the SS to get glove in position to tag the runner? .5 second? So now your 1.65 pop time would become 2.15. Not so good anymore.

That is why accuracy matters. But the pop time in itself can still be measured.

Additionally ability of the receiving defensive players efficiency in their mechanics is another measurement.
Which can include where they are standing or if they get to the base in time.

Timing the defense and breaking down the different factors Within timing mechanical elements is where we find efficiency on the field. Not just making a play but making it as efficient as it can be.
The technical within the technique is measurable!
* like how fast batters get out of the box is measurable!

 

[daywalkerdad]

✔ good point,


Getting out of the box quickly is efficiency!
The play starts upon contact of the bat and the ball, then getting out of the box, is part of either the quickness or the delay of the play just after the ball is put into play upon contact.
Especially with those lefties the feet are already moving even before contact.
But they are still in the box.

( have known several tb coaches who were timing catchers pop times from when the ball was coming out of the catcher's hand. Supposed to be from contact!)

Yes, but I was more looking for how it is timed. Very few 20 yard times exist for track, the NFL tracks splits at the combine. Elite runners, good college track runners 2.5-2.55. So from the right handed batters box Add in .5 yard, standing up, on dirt, touching the base you are looking at 2.65-2.7. Women are 6-9% slower.
That puts some of the fastest women in the world 2.8-2.9 20.5 yards.
Look on recruiting sites you see outfielders under 2.8. Is this either running start starting after the first step out of the box, or is it +/- .18 hand time error?

 

[radness]

Yes, but I was more looking for how it is timed. Very few 20 yard times exist for track, the NFL tracks splits at the combine. Elite runners, good college track runners 2.5-2.55. So from the right handed batters box Add in .5 yard, standing up, on dirt, touching the base you are looking at 2.65-2.7. Women are 6-9% slower.
That puts some of the fastest women in the world 2.8-2.9 20.5 yards.
Look on recruiting sites you see outfielders under 2.8. Is this either running start starting after the first step out of the box, or is it +/- .18 hand time error?

Skills testing camps like On Deck will do Straight Sprint timed runs. Example 20-yard dash.
Obviously that is just timing running speed.
(Which is an important measurable tool but it does not show things like defense getting a good jump on the ball or quickness out of the box.)

Similar to this discussion would be skills testing camps like On Deck will time swing speed and exit velocity.
( even though that may not be an example of trajectory of the ball off the bat. It also does not show timing a pitcher and hitting pitch locations because they do those timings off of a tee.)

Similar to this offer this example,
just because a catcher can throw 70 mph does not mean they would have a great pop time because there may be too much elapsed time once they receive the ball to when they throw it. And that time can increase pop time.

 

[machine]

Anything done by hand is suspect. Watched some tryouts the other day and some of the hand times results were insane. Also, looking at player profiles over the years and have seen some very generous times listed. One coach had like half the team under 2.6, what a disservice.

My DD is considered fast and consistently hits 3.0 on lasers and about 2.8 contact to 1st out of left box. If everything is in alignment and a perfect start then maybe 2.7 contact to 1st, but it has to be the perfect pitch.

Over the years, there was a teammate of two that were crazy fast. Take a tenth(.1) off those times or so. Just had crazy acceleration, which I believe separates the fast from the crazy fast . Also, on teams we faced there were a few, but they were the exception not the rule.

Looking at the top college slappers and a bunch of them are in their own league. Few and far in-between... just like those .600+ hitters!

 

[_MIA_]

Skills testing camps like On Deck will do Straight Sprint timed runs. Example 20-yard dash.
Obviously that is just timing running speed.
(Which is an important measurable tool but it does not show things like defense getting a good jump on the ball or quickness out of the box.)

Similar to this discussion would be skills testing camps like On Deck will time swing speed and exit velocity.
( even though that may not be an example of trajectory of the ball off the bat. It also does not show timing a pitcher and hitting pitch locations because they do those timings off of a tee.)

Similar to this offer this example,
just because a catcher can throw 70 mph does not mean they would have a great pop time because there may be too much elapsed time once they receive the ball to when they throw it. And that time can increase pop time.

In your opinion what do college coaches use these camp numbers for from a recruiting perspective? Initial screening if the numbers stick out (one way or the other)? Way back in the day when scouts would be at our games they would have stopwatches but they would also be watching the player with their own two eyes..

 

[coachdennis]

Lol..well yeah my only direct contact has been with a few who guys I played with who played in MLB but if I learned how to score games from watching MLB games growing up I would assume somebody who lived it would know an error from a hit.

Since I have explained my reasoning would you care to explain to me how you are coming up with your stance on the subject or are you just going to throw out one-liners?

We have a lot of current and former MLB staff, coaches and players work at the academy. Score keeping is something that many have never done or, had to do. They know their skill sets and teaching hitting, fielding, throwing running etc. is what their focus is.

Now the REDS also offer training for coaches College, HS, Travel and recreational.
One of the training sessions is score keeping where they bring in an "official scorekeeper" for baseball and softball to the RBI academy as part of baseball/softball school where coaches can come to the academy and receive free training on score keeping, stat tracking, injury prevention, college recruiting, etc.
I was a little surprised how many are paid positions that hold the title of official scorekeeper. Naturally these individuals have completed training on how specific leagues expect scoring to be done. Score keeping and stats is a paid position in Minors, MLB, College and some high level travel organizations.

NFCA also has training options available for coaches that include score keeping.

NFCA | National Fastpitch Coaches Association

There's a lot going on in the world of NFCA. Stay in the know with all the latest news, events, and activities that surround the National Fastpitch Coaches Association

nfca.org

 

[_MIA_]

We have a lot of current and former MLB staff, coaches and players work at the academy. Score keeping is something that many have never done or, had to do. They know their skill sets and teaching hitting, fielding, throwing running etc. is what their focus is.

Ok I will take your word for it as my access to them isn't the same as yours but it is hard for me to believe that somebody who has been in the game all their life couldn't score a game in GC and have the results be such that the stats are accurate (eg what we are talking about here..) There are not too many things you have to do correctly (distinguish between hits/errors/FC, what is a double vs a single with a 1 base error, etc) to get accurate stats in GC..

 

[coachdennis]

This is getting off topic but I believe pop time should be timed from sound of ball into catchers glove to sound of SS slapping 2nd base. This would incorporate the catchers accuracy into the equation and give a better metric to evaluate the catchers overall value.
If the throw is 5 feet high and 3 feet wide, how long would it take for the SS to get glove in position to tag the runner? .5 second? So now your 1.65 pop time would become 2.15. Not so good anymore.

At the NFCA camps this video shows how pop time is measured as well as some additional drills catchers do at the camps.

 

[lynx]

I've seen scorekeepers for teams count hits for just getting on base by hitting the ball...whether it's an error or FC....could be a combo of weak pitching/ defense........