Distracted ump (1st base coach)..what's the call?

[EdLovrich]

USSSA: RULE 8. BASE RUNNING
Sec 13. When a runner is obstructed while advancing or returning to a base, by a fielder who neither has the ball nor is attempting an initial play on a batted ball, it shall be a delayed dead-ball.
D. An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where the runner was obstructed except as follows:
1. The obstructed runner obtains the base they would have been awarded had there been no obstruction and there is a subsequent play. The obstructed runner is no longer protected if they leave the base.


Once the runner reached and left 3B (where she was protected to) to attempt to reach Home, she was at risk of being put out.

Edit: If this were not the case, there is nothing preventing the runner from ALWAYS attempting to advance to the next base. The worst that could happen is she is returned safely to the previous base. Once she has returned, if that is where she is being protected to as is the case in this video, then any advance needs to be at peril of being put out. If she had NOT returned to 3B (hard to tell in the video from the distance and angle, but I believe her hand did get to the bag) then she WOULD have been protected and there is a case to be made that she was held up just long enough to have been obstructed at the plate since it was a bang-bang play.

 

[Rolling Hard]

Dang, it was only a friendly! I think she was soufth.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

USSSA is distinctly odd-ball in that way. Little League uses (or used) OBR type A or B obstruction.

 

[EdLovrich]

NCAA

EFFECT—(9.5.3.1 to 9.5.3.6)—Whenever obstruction occurs, whether a play is being made on a runner, obstruction shall be called and a delayed dead ball is signaled. If the obstructed player safely reaches the base she should have reached had there been no obstruction or she is put out at a base beyond the base she should have reached had there been no obstruction, no further action occurs.

NFHS Is similar wording to USSSA. It is LL and OBR-derived rules sets that are the odd-balls. But under OBR, the runner is always awarded the further of the two bases the obstruction occurs between (in this case Home, even though the runner was retreating to 3B at the time of the obstruction)

 

[Crabby_Bob]

Um, no.

[USA] 8.5.B1 An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where obstructed.
Exceptions: A. When an obstructed runner, after the obstruction , safely obtains the base they would have been awarded, in the umpire's judgement, had there been no obstruction and there is a subsequent play on a different runner.

[NFHS] 8-4-3b exception 1. When an obstructed runner, after the obstruction, safely obtains or returns to the base she would have been awarded, in the umpire's judgement, had there been no obstruction and there is a subsequent play on a different runner, the obstructed runner is no longer protected between the bases where she was obstructed and may be put out.

for NCAA, keep reading.
[NCAA] 9.5.7 An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where she was obstructed unless one of the following occurs:
9.5.7.1 The obstructed runner, after being obstructed, safely obtains the base she would have been awarded, in the umpire's judgment, had there been no obstruction and there is a subsequent play on a different runner. The obstructed runner is no longer protected if she leaves the base.

A significant fraction of the country uses USA, NFHS, or NCAA. TCS has used USA (don't know if they always use it) and PGF uses modified NFHS. OBR will always advance the runner if Type A obstruction is ruled. If Type B is ruled, the umpire will impose effects to nullify the act of obstruction. The runner may be ruled out for advancing beyond the awarded base.

 

[EdLovrich]

I stand corrected. Thank you CB. Goes back to our standard question. Which rule set is this game being played under? Oh yes, and the new second question, was this a friendly or a real game? Friendly you say? "Had to be there to know what was agreed to beforehand, but it doesn't really matter since it doesn't count anyway".

So, I think I can give a "real" answer.
USA/NFHS/NCAA return the runner to 3B.
USSSA runner out at the plate as called.
OBR/LL since the runner was being played upon this would would have been Type 1 (or Type A) obstruction, it would have been an immediate dead ball and the runner would have been awarded Home.

CB, others, concur?

 

[Crabby_Bob]

Thanks, I learned something about USSSA. Under, USA/NFHA/NCAA, it will be 3rd or home by umpire judgement.

 

[Comp]

I stand corrected. Thank you CB. Goes back to our standard question. Which rule set is this game being played under? Oh yes, and the new second question, was this a friendly or a real game? Friendly you say? "Had to be there to know what was agreed to beforehand, but it doesn't really matter since it doesn't count anyway".

So, I think I can give a "real" answer.
USA/NFHS/NCAA return the runner to 3B.
USSSA runner out at the plate as called.
OBR/LL since the runner was being played upon this would would have been Type 1 (or Type A) obstruction, it would have been an immediate dead ball and the runner would have been awarded Home.

CB, others, concur?

Where are you getting that this is an out in USSSA? It has the exact same exception to being called out as USA and NFHS, you even typed out the exception. To cancel the protection the obstructed runner must reach the base AND there must be a subsequent play on a different runner. Until both of those things happen the runner is still protected between the 2 bases, even in USSSA.

And yes, the runner could still try to advance even after getting back to the base the umpire judged they would have been safe at. They are protected until both requirements are met to cancel the obstruction.

 

[jackfrost]

Where are you getting that this is an out in USSSA? It has the exact same exception to being called out as USA and NFHS, you even typed out the exception.

Absolutely agree here. The wording posted above for USSSA is no different. And there was no subsequent play on another runner so you can not call that runner out at home. You could put her back to 3rd on judgement but with a F5 sitting on her the correct judgement is award her home.

 

[radness]