Dealing with gay/bi players

[sluggers]

I had two kids play college sports. So, these issues come up quite a bit.

Do you think those are the kinds of rules that should be enforced for inter-team dating?"

My kids' coaches did.

it seems that for most responses from people who have dealt with it that some sort of guidelines ought to be in place, like no rooming together on the road or not PDA during team events.

Yes, you have to guidelines. You can make the guidelines apply to everyone. "You can't room with your SO during team trips" is pretty neutral.

Does that go far enough or should a coach actively discourage/ban dating?

It is impossible for a coach to control what happens.

Should a coach address the subject at all, or wait until/if something happens that causes a team disruption?

A coach can't wait until it causes a problem. You have to make the rules clear from the beginning. And, then the coach has to enforce the rules.

At the college level, most kids are there to play the game. So, all a coach really has to do is say, "Either you abide by the rules, or you are off the team."

Some coaches are hesitant to enforce rules against "the star" players.

And here's one that hadn't been thrown out -- how should a coach respond if they a) know thier players, Wendy and Lisa, are dating b) know that Wendy isn't out to her parents and c) get directly asked about whether Wendy and Lisa are dating by one of those parents? Is it better to out the kid or lie to the parents?

On my team, there would be a strict rule against PDAs at team events. So, I would never have any direct knowledge about who was dating whom. I would only know about rumors.

My answer would likely be, "Go ask Wendy and Lisa."

 

[_MIA_]

As long as somebody didn't get in the way of me tossing my bat after a K I didn't care if they were dating Pope John Paul. I had a GF my Jr. and Sr. year but I was only allowed to go out with her once a week..which was fine since she couldn't throw BP worth sh*%

 

[quincy]

Physical abuse is a different level, that is reported to authorities. We can discuss what abuse is but not in this thread.

Most my information came from DD because she could trust me not to tell. She did not always share or know what she should share but if an issue was bubbling I would ask her and she would share at least some of it with me if she could.

Other players would be really upset about it and DD would be a no one if they knew.

DW is closer to DD then me but some SB players are closer than both of us.

 

[QueueCT]

And here's one that hadn't been thrown out -- how should a coach respond if they a) know thier players, Wendy and Lisa, are dating b) know that Wendy isn't out to her parents and c) get directly asked about whether Wendy and Lisa are dating by one of those parents? Is it better to out the kid or lie to the parents?

...

My answer would likely be, "Go ask Wendy and Lisa."

I agree. It's not my place to out players, nor is it my place to cover for their lies. If they are in a dangerous situation then the calculus changes.

 

[Dropball]

I have a semi-related situation which I observed over the winter in HS basketball that at some point will happen if it hasn't already in softball.

I attended a girls basketball game this past winter. The opposition was not very talented except for 1 player who could out jump every player on the court and scored 21 of their teams 24 points. While I have no evidence other than my eyes and basketball experience, in my opinion the player had not been born female. I was not the only observer that made this comment.

I have hesitated to bring ths up. I am not making a judgement on this, just an observation.

Has anyone had this happen in older TB, or HS?

Have not run into this situation yet but I am sure it is coming. Local tournaments it may not be an issue, but let it happen in the state tournament a showcase or nationals and it could be very interesting.

How about born as males who are identifying as females ?

 

[Bullseye]

Coach sets the team guidelines at first team practice. Should be about softball goals and focus. Beyond that any issues that start tearing at the team handled the same. Pending age of players teams grow through these things. Cannot police teenage activities off the field. Its all over social media anyway.

Would be livid if a travel ball coach had a one-on-one conversation with my daughter about her sexuality.
That topic is crossing a line.

 

[Quasimodo]

To comment towards a couple things in whiporee original post...
View attachment 19587


Also going to add sounds like you are a little naive or unaware of the presence of gays in your daily life that have been in our community the entire time of our community. Including going to school together and growing up in the same classrooms.
In compairison~
There are tons more heterosexual players on teams that those drama episodes far eclipse lesbian topics on teams.
Probably you cant imagine being the only lesbian, or 1 of say 3 lesbians, on a team listening to
( and having to 'deal with')
the tons of heterosexual chitter chatter and junk brought into the duggout and out onto the field for decades!!!.

If there is a conversation to be had...shouldnt it have started years ago,
( while the closet door was still shut...as previously commented)
Because the hetero's were drama'bombing it up ? !!!!!!!!
Shouldnt this 'deal with it' have started previously?!!!

To further some 'different perspectives'

Isnt anger an emotion?
That has a negative effect towards eachother?
How about Jealousy?
Manipulation?
Liars?
Backstabbing?
Mean people?
Along with other assortment of playing issues like
Players who get treated differently by coaches?

I would much rather have anyone as a teammate who enjoy's and cares for eachother.
Than the petty indifferences of negative emotions and actions crudding up the dynamic on a team, workplace & life!

I agree with some of what you say here RADcatcher, but I do not believe being closeted is an issue. Everyone knows everyone's business on a team. I have never coached a team that didn't! I had a gay player here that was removed from a team from Tondo, the poorer section of Manila. She ended up going to Nueva Ecjia a province about 4 hours north just to play. I invited her to the Junior National team tryouts. Her former coach said to me, "You know she is gay don't you?" It happens and it is wrong. I talked to the Youth President here and told him my view. Her orientation is none of my business, and any other restriction or view is prejudiced. He agreed absolutely. She did not make the team to be honest, but she was given a fair chance.

This is my true perspective. The gay community is huge here, and I have theories why. Much of it is the behavior of men to be quite frank. The girls experiment, avoid pregnancy, and get what they need in some way. But I hug them just as much as any girl. I have a girl here who I offered to adopt at age 16 whom I knew was gay. I knew her girlfriend. It wasn't an issue for me. I still take care of her, put her through High School, and she has entered college this fall. I am not in agreement about the drama. If girls want to talk about being gay so be it.

We have sexual harassment laws in the US. They don't here. But advanced are not allowed in the work place, etc. Sexual harassment is real, and I have seen it in the work place. But what is different if it is on a team? The interactions should be limited without bias. I never allowed girls to have their boyfriends ride with the team in cars or on the team bus. I never allowed them to meet up when traveling. And one violation of that rule cost us a championship game when the drop-out boyfriend followed us to the State Championships and convinced my pitcher to drink and smoke dope!

 

[Quasimodo]

Then I assume you don't let your teenager have ANY sleepovers, or ANY swimming parties, or be alone with ANY other teenagers, regardless of gender? After all, teenagers gonna teenage. However, if you don't worry about your teenager experimenting with sex with their (as far as you know) heterosexual friends, since they aren't attracted to one another, why would you worry about them doing it with a homosexual friend? If your DD isn't homosexual or bisexual, she isn't going to be "turned into one"/talked into it by someone else just because THAT teenager is.

If your DD was homosexual, would you not allow her to participate in things with her friends, that the other girls were involved in, just because she's homosexual? How would you feel if she was told she couldn't? If I were in that position, I feel like the implications would be extremely offensive to me.

I guess I am old fashioned, as I do not encourage or condone any sexual activity by my players in any way. Heterosexual or gay, I do not view teenage girls as sexual, or sexy! As their supervisor first, coach second, I consider it my responsibility to function as a role model, and a "substitute parent" in their absence. I consider the time my first and second batters on our team, the CF and 2B got caught shoplifting at 5 strip-mall stores while supposedly at our team car wash. I consider the time my #1 pitcher after winning 105 straight games snuck out of the hotel and drank and smoked dope with her drop-out boyfriend the night before the State Championship game, and lost the only game of her career. I think of one of my players that got pregnant by her own dad whom I never met, and left the team and ran away from home. In 46 years I have seen everything. And I think it is my job to minimize the damage, because I am not there just to win. I adopted one team that had lost 35 straight games and never played more than 3 innings. I consider myself a TEACHER first. A guardian second. A winner third. I also do not go swimming with the girls at the beach or in a hotel.

I ask a girl's permission to touch her if I need to adjust her arms, legs, etc during instruction. Mom's hav asked me why? I tell them so their daughter understands that they control their body, not someone else. It is okay to say no! That is just me. I am not Mel Hall or John Wettleand.

 

[radness]

I agree with some of what you say here RADcatcher, but I do not believe being closeted is an issue. Everyone knows everyone's business on a team. I have never coached a team that didn't! I had a gay player here that was removed from a team from Tondo, the poorer section of Manila. She ended up going to Nueva Ecjia a province about 4 hours north just to play. I invited her to the Junior National team tryouts. Her former coach said to me, "You know she is gay don't you?" It happens and it is wrong. I talked to the Youth President here and told him my view. Her orientation is none of my business, and any other restriction or view is prejudiced. He agreed absolutely. She did not make the team to be honest, but she was given a fair chance.

This is my true perspective. The gay community is huge here, and I have theories why. Much of it is the behavior of men to be quite frank. The girls experiment, avoid pregnancy, and get what they need in some way. But I hug them just as much as any girl. I have a girl here who I offered to adopt at age 16 whom I knew was gay. I knew her girlfriend. It wasn't an issue for me. I still take care of her, put her through High School, and she has entered college this fall. I am not in agreement about the drama. If girls want to talk about being gay so be it.

We have sexual harassment laws in the US. They don't here. But advanced are not allowed in the work place, etc. Sexual harassment is real, and I have seen it in the work place. But what is different if it is on a team? The interactions should be limited without bias. I never allowed girls to have their boyfriends ride with the team in cars or on the team bus. I never allowed them to meet up when traveling. And one violation of that rule cost us a championship game when the drop-out boyfriend followed us to the State Championships and convinced my pitcher to drink and smoke dope!

( just for clarity, the op commented "it wasnt a problem when it was closeted"~
my comment was to say, yes it was still a problem when closeted. That in itself was a problem.)

Thanku BIG Q for your well written posts! Especially in your sharing of experience in our softball community with this topic and how evolved it really is!
BIG Q said~
"The interactions should be limited without bias!"
Great sentence!

 

[bmakj]

Could be!
But could it also be the same irritation toward the teammate who starts dating there teammates ex boyfriend?!

A team agreement form is probably not going to include
You cant date your teammate ex.
Have to say leave the junk/drama off the field.
No matter the bits 'n pieces.
Same standards for everyone.

What other topics may a coach want to keep off the field?

OK, the one who just broke up with you, this will not happen if it was a boy who just broke up with them.