DD Bat Drag ?

[softballphreak]

IMO the use of a heavier barrel helps a hitter recognize if they are a 'bat dragger'. There is a greater awareness of the limitation of 'dead hands' with a heavier barrel.

That's probably true for a player with some experience, but for a beginner to try to swing a bat that they can't really swing because of the weight, is definitely a recipe for bag drag. They have no way of getting it around except by tugging on it.

I think MTS has a great question about what the results would be if they started with a super light bat to begin with. Then progress to the next level after the proper mechanics are formed.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Great business model. Create bat drag and then charge trying to fix it. Just keep saying you are getting it, work harder, bat drag is a hard thing to fix (especially because what I teach creates it). Now, you are getting closer, look at the tee swings, you have it. It just breaks down under the stress of a game at bat.

I need to change my business model.

LOL! Then tell them they need to rotate faster!!

Actually, this is so true that it isn't really that funny.

 

[HYP]

Bump, PualN, Trying to get a better understanding of the physics of the swing. Can you please reply. Shouldn't be hard since the same physics describe both swings.

Please use physics to describe this swing.

Jayla 9yo (11-9-12 Practice) - YouTube

And then please use physics to describe the above swing of Longoria.

Thanks

 

[softballphreak]

I don't believe anyone would intentionally mislead a parent/kid for the sake of a buck. And if they aren't doing that there's nothing wrong with earning money.

Not to mention, that some of those people also have some very good points. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has benefited from that knowledge on this forum.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

That's probably true for a player with some experience, but for a beginner to try to swing a bat that they can't really swing because of the weight, is definitely a recipe for bag drag. They have no way of getting it around except by tugging on it.

I think MTS has a great question about what the results would be if they started with a super light bat to begin with. Then progress to the next level after the proper mechanics are formed.

I agree ... you have to be using a barrel that can be handled. I do believe that many kids can be given good information and taught to use bats heavier than what is common for many.

And a big 10-4 to promoting good top-hand usage. Absolutely agree with that.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I don't believe anyone would intentionally mislead a parent/kid for the sake of a buck. And if they aren't doing that there's nothing wrong with earning money.

Not to mention, that some of those people also have some very good points. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has benefited from that knowledge on this forum.

You need to get out more.

There are definitely people out there that treat the activity as a business model and place the biggest focus on positive re-enforcement for the sake of retaining customers, regardless of whether or not there is any improvement taking place. Many mean well ... heck the majority do mean well ... but there are some that primarily care about extracting your money. As always ... employ the Hanson Principle when possible.

 

[jbooth]

shoulders are part of torso ?

Seriously Tom? You don't believe that the shoulders are part of the torso? The torso is what is left when you remove the limbs and head. I guess if you consider the top of the humerus to be the shoulder then you would be correct. I'm talking about the shoulder joint. Which, after the humerus is removed, still has the clavicle and scapula, and the joint that rotates. If the humerus is connected it gets moved when the joint is rotated. Since the hands indirectly connect to the shoulder joint, through the humerus. Then when the joint moves, the hands usually do, also.

turning back shoulder is likely to force drag.

It could, but not likely, in and of itself. Not turning the back shoulder is more likely to cause drag, because the hitter will pull or push the bat forward, because the shoulders are not.

yes, science can theoretically explain all swings, but what pattern do you want?
High level MLB pattern is upper body pull back balanced around rear hip, turning handle between hands, no rear scap unloading before contact.

The upper body pull back only lasts until the shoulders are forced to rotate, at which time, the hands move, if you've kept them back. And, yes, the handle turns between the hands, but not with supination.

emphasize shoulder turn or torso turn or front hip or merry go round etc will prevent pattern.

Not if you teach it correctly.

 

[Towson 15]

The poster girl on this thread has made some significant improvements on the bag swing as well as off the tee. She has also made a number of additional adjustments to her swing with a number to go. I t would be nice to see her continue her progress by showing how well these already seen improvements transfer over to front toss followed by live game swings.

I wish it was always as easy to address swing inefficiencies as this girl is making it appear to be.The science may be confusing and boring to some moms and dads who just want answers but there are many kids who unfortunately never get very far because their unaddressed hitting flaws force them out of the game.The fix to the drag issue may not be overly complicated but their are a host of other problems that require that the details of science be understood and applied so that the kid who loves the sport has the opportunity to reach his or her potential.

MTS said,"Why,where is the evidence of this? How did hitters in the past figure it out without guys like you and PaulN. around?" I believe that those hitters figured it out through trial and error. Guys like J.Booth and PaulN.have worked diligently by turning to science to help to reduce the amount of trial and error for many others.

Years ago,Jim Dixon asked me to do the following experiment. He directed me to extend my arm out to the side so that it was parallel to my shoulder and then to close my eyes. He said,"Now touch your nose with your finger" . Following my completion of his request ,he queried, "Do you think you controlled that move with your finger?"At that point, the light cam on for me as I realized that there were a number of joints and muscles involved in coordinating that movement. Does that help you MTS?

FFS posted" hands and wrists 2 and 3 "by Ted Williams. Would you mind reposting them as they appear to be be truncated ?

 

[RichK]

As an interested onlooker, I have a question, if the main combatants would be so kind:

Do both "sides" agree that we are talking about two different, distinct swing models here? Yes or No? The alternative, which I find frustrating, is the idea that there is one swing model but a right and a wrong way of describing it.

TKS!

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Townson ... I re-checked ... the Ted Williams sound bites seem to be working. Maybe this might help ....



p.s.
The Jim Dixon test is nice. Unfortunately I didn't get to exchange a lot of communication with Jim before he passed. I did find him to be kind and helpful. Often what is important, is that the goal needs to be clearly stated ... and with that in mind the complexity of the task can change.