DD Bat Drag ?

[HYP]

This was posted back in 2004 by a player who is now a hitting instructor for the St. Louis Cardinals:

Quote by Barry Bonds, Wait until she meets my top hand.

David Wright, "I want to feel like my shoulders finished where they started".

Ichiro, "I do not want the pitcher to see my chest to early".

Cecil Fielder, "Get the body out of the way so the hands can do the work".

So, your point?

 

[softballphreak]

This IS the Technical hitting thread. The Practical thread is where it should be closer to the players' level of understanding. Reading the technical details certainly should help the coach/parent understand the why and wherefore to be able to translate it for those that don't study the Technical points.

 

[HYP]

40 pages (and counting) of theories to answer the question.

Most of which are the same guys having the same arguments they have been having for 10 years.

I'd venture there's precious little learning going on.

If only somebody could distill this down to just a couple of pages.

LOL.

Lock the handle to your tricep and turn as far as you can until the barrel gets in front. LOL

 

[HYP]

douger 06-16-2005, 12:44 PM #1

Overcoming bat drag

My 13 yo daughter is battling bat drag. We seem to have conquered it on tee and dry swings, but comes back when hitting any moving ball (even softtoss). I have given her lots of different swing thoughts and tried several different drills. We video tape sessions (twice a week) so it is clear to her what is happening. She has made progress and is doing it less. Wondering if progress will happen very slowly or if we can expect to find something that clicks for her. We have been focusing on it for a month and a half.

I have Paul's instructors swing program and have been working hard on swing plane and connection. Here is a link to a thread showing her work on the tee with focus on swing plane and connection.

I have read that JA and TM's son Brandon have battled this, but can see tremendous improvement from recent video. Richard and Jeff ... any thoughts on what worked? Has anyone else had themselves or a student conquor this?

She has used Paul's "back shoulder to the ball" and has gotten some success. From a teaching perspective it seems like there is no way to avoid needing to have some concsious awareness of keeping the back elbow behind the hands ... and from there developing a new pattern that doesn't require the use of the back elbow to rotate and find swing plane.

Doug


Paul 06-16-2005, 01:40 PM

Post It a "only" took me...



... four or five years to figure out what I was doing wrong.

And if I don't take swings three or four times a week, it's like starting all over again (bat drag/bat lag).

I believe it took Jeff Albert almost 3 years before he really "got it". And that's a person who took 200-300 swings a day six days a week.

And what you do on a tee does not readily transfer to moving ball.

You must develop a regimen, tee-side toss-front toss-pitching machine-live arm-batting practice-practice games-real games.

And you must always repeat this sequence.

Once ingrained, bat lag/bat drag is like any other bad habit. It's always there and requires little or no encouragement to take over in a heartbeat...


Teacherman 06-16-2005, 02:25 PM #3


The more we concentrated on what the hands were doing the worse we got.

The more we concentrated on quality rotation the better the hands got.

I've always believed you don't really change bad habits. Instead, you create new ones.

That being said, in our most recent clip...........there it is again.

Problem is it's a long process searching for the right combination of setup, posture, connection and rotation. A lot of variables to mess with. 1000's of different permutations (sp). You think you've worked it out. Have a game. Sh*t. Looks like the old swing again. Back to work. Over and over and over. Nothing like the stress of a game at bat to break you down.

Start working and eliminate as you go. Experiment with the speed and explosiveness of your hip rotation. Don't let your hands have any time.

See you in 6 weeks.


padfoot87 06-16-2005, 03:37 PM #4

Doug,

One other thing you could try is something Gregg (g.stock) first suggested that i find very helpful. Ask your daughter to form the box with her hands and then lock her arms in place by contracting (flexing) her biceps. When i use the cue, i just flex the bottom hand but you could try both hands. Then forget about the arms and work on rotating well. If you do keep the biceps flexed through the first part of the swing and just rotate, you should maintain the box and bat drag shouldn't happen.

Sriram


siggy 06-16-2005, 07:41 PM #5


Doug,

I have seen some improvement in my daughter by doing basically what Sriram mentions: flex/tighten the front arm while turning. Actually we start with a back hand "open but supporting" style of swing (as Paul showed in his medicus demos I think) and add in the rear hand after 1/2 a bucket or so of whatever the drill. Bat drag has decreased but still shows up at times.

You mention needing to have a conscious awareness. I wonder if having her think of Jeff's weight stack idea might be useful for this?

john

I honestly have no idea what the purpose of this post is. Was it to show that you have a hard time fixing bat drag? Was it to show that lock and turn doesn't fix bat drag? That you can fix bat drag on a tee with lock and turn but under the stress of a game it doesn't work?

I teach to be able to hit in a game. I can careless whether they can hit off of a tee or not. As long as they look good in the game.

Odd post for me.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Lock the handle to your tricep and turn as far as you can until the barrel gets in front. LOL

And yet he's the one laughing to the bank.

 

[softballphreak]

Has anyone ever noticed that when a beginning player (sometimes not beginners) is handed a bat that is too heavy that there is a tendency to drag the bat, pull the bat with the hands and arms/elbows. After reading this thread I'm better understanding why they do that.

IMO, one of the reasons is the bat being too heavy prevents them from throwing the barrel; therefore, they attempt to drag/pull it at the ball.

Now, if they learn to throw the barrel in the beginning with a bat that is light enough I believe there wouldn't be the bat drag issue that is so common with younger kids. Therefore, the hands are very significant in the process.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I honestly have no idea what the purpose of this post is. Was it to show that you have a hard time fixing bat drag? Was it to show that lock and turn doesn't fix bat drag? That you can fix bat drag on a tee with lock and turn but under the stress of a game it doesn't work?

I teach to be able to hit in a game. I can careless whether they can hit off of a tee or not. As long as they look good in the game.

Odd post for me.

I think it is an advertisement for what this young 9yo girl has accomplished. PaulN seems to be saying that there are people out there that have struggled like crazy to address 'bat drag' ... they literally spent years on the issue ... and now it is revealed that a 9yo girl can address the problem relatively quickly.

Then again, maybe the point is that it doesn't always pay to re-define the problem and then go after a solution to the re-defined problem ... only to find out that the re-defined problem wasn't a direct match to the real problem.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Has anyone ever noticed that when a beginning player (sometimes not beginners) is handed a bat that is too heavy that there is a tendency to drag the bat, pull the bat with the hands and arms/elbows. After reading this thread I'm better understanding why they do that.

IMO, one of the reasons is the bat being too heavy prevents them from throwing the barrel; therefore, they attempt to drag/pull it at the ball.

Now, if they learn to throw the barrel in the beginning with a bat that is light enough I believe there wouldn't be the bat drag issue that is so common with younger kids. Therefore, the hands are very significant in the process.

IMO the use of a heavier barrel helps a hitter recognize if they are a 'bat dragger'. There is a greater awareness of the limitation of 'dead hands' with a heavier barrel.

 

[RayR]

It is problem at the beginning levels of play that even the lightest bats are heavy given that they are given a heavy dose of tee work and they want to hit the ball in the air and the easiest way to do that is drop the barrel - which not only makes the bat heavier it also creates bad habits from the start.

I wonder how they would do if at a young age they were only allowed to use their top hand with a super light bat for most of the drills?

Has anyone ever noticed that when a beginning player (sometimes not beginners) is handed a bat that is too heavy that there is a tendency to drag the bat, pull the bat with the hands and arms/elbows. After reading this thread I'm better understanding why they do that.

IMO, one of the reasons is the bat being too heavy prevents them from throwing the barrel; therefore, they attempt to drag/pull it at the ball.

Now, if they learn to throw the barrel in the beginning with a bat that is light enough I believe there wouldn't be the bat drag issue that is so common with younger kids. Therefore, the hands are very significant in the process.

 

[HYP]

I think it is an advertisement for what this young 9yo girl has accomplished. PaulN seems to be saying that there are people out there that have struggled like crazy to address 'bat drag' ... they literally spent years on the issue ... and now it is revealed that a 9yo girl can address the problem relatively quickly.

Then again, maybe the point is that it doesn't always pay to re-define the problem and then go after a solution to the re-defined problem ... only to find out that the re-defined problem wasn't a direct match to the real problem.

Great business model. Create bat drag and then charge trying to fix it. Just keep saying you are getting it, work harder, bat drag is a hard thing to fix (especially because what I teach creates it). Now, you are getting closer, look at the tee swings, you have it. It just breaks down under the stress of a game at bat.

I need to change my business model.