DD Bat Drag ?

[softballphreak]

I'd be willing to bet the same thing.

 

[pstein]

I would hope they would be one or two people reading these posts who would understand why I posted some of my experiences with trying to help people deal with the bat drag problem.

The other bat drag "experts" here have presented nothing more than a few simplistic cues, claims of success and some clips of Ted Williams with nothing to substantiate their experience (expertise?) dealing with bat drag.

And anyone who really understands what causes bat drag will also understand why it's so difficult to correct, and correcting goes far beyond simply getting the bottom hand elbow to "behave".

Enough said.

Correcting bat drag doesn't mean the bottom hand elbow "behaves", because the bottom hand elbow can "behave" and the bat can still be dragged. Many of us know of someone who has invested a tremendous amount of time into researching bat drag. He has fixed it visually, but the issue still remains. He has ignored the best solution for whatever reason. It's not my place to speculate as to why he's ignoring it.

This is my experience: I used to swing right-handed. I had a horrible bat drag issue. So horrible that I went to swinging left-handed, in hopes that the issue would subside. Once I started swinging left-handed, I learned how to apply the "hands" (i.e. a pressure sensation in the hands) properly. My bat drag on the right hand side vanished.

Bat drag is difficult to fix IF we're stuck on "turn from the center, the hands are holding on". That's not representative of what MLB players do, at least IMO.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I understand everything that you say. But, it seems that you often don't understand what I say.

Again, I'm talking technical on the technical forum and you keep wanting me to talk non-technical. If you don't want to talk technical then respond to people who post in the practical forum.

What you say is practical and probably works for you, but you don't appear to understand the technical aspects of what you believe that you do in your swing.

I think we pretty much both understand and agree what it takes to execute a good swing. You just can't describe it in technical terms. I think parents that post on this technical forum are looking for more detail and science than you want to" provide or can provide. If they weren't or felt they could not understand technical stuff, they wouldn't post on this area.

I'd be willing to bet, that if we met in person and could demo and talk back and forth with bats in our hands, we wouldn't be very far apart in what we believe is a good swing. And, I think I could clarify the technicalities for you more easily.

Hell I consider myself a pretty smart gent on a diamond. But techs are one dimensional. Techs are great for a base, it's the applying skills and adjustment for an ever changing environment ( pitch ) when one can see the true value of applied.

Good swings are needed, but for the most part they are "swung" for perfect swinging pitches in a zone. Ever see the mechanics for a needed foul, or a pull hitter staying alive on an outside pitch? They are adjustments per individual, you can't lump that over a 20 person roster. Drag, lunge, barrel path all have a place if you're any good at the game. But not on this thread, because most can't teach it. It's practical, and very few possess the mental ability and natural senses to make milli second adjustments.

The fact that exercises of technical knowledge are guided by propositions or rules seems to entail that they involve instructions that are universally applicable — the person acting on technical knowledge has an instruction booklet, which she reflects upon before acting. In contrast, part of the skill that constitutes skill at hitting involves reacting to situations for which no instruction manual can prepare you.

 

[RayR]

I agree with you that if did meet up we would be pretty much in agreement.

I think parents that post on this technical forum are looking for more detail and science than you want to provide or can provide.

I do understand most of what you say (sometimes you do go over my head, but I think I just gloss over the science stuff after reading it for a few years on other boards) -it's just that I don't ever want to speak in technical terms about the swing in that kind of detail on a public board whether it is a technical forum or not. There are many who read these threads looking for answers and the tech stuff is just not helpful to most of them....I am just trying to keep it readable....if there was more activity on the practical board I would stay there, but whatever reason most topics are here.

So, YES, more detail as in - "You want to create an inside hand path from the start (thinking in terms that the hands stay behind the front elbow as the hands start forward) instead of letting the hands drop and drift away from your body towards the plate as the front arm straightens out. Here are a couple of drills to work on it and here are a couple of clips to show what I am talking about"

And no to most of the scientific reasons why the shoulders rotate and how every single bone moves....

I understand everything that you say. But, it seems that you often don't understand what I say.

Again, I'm talking technical on the technical forum and you keep wanting me to talk non-technical. If you don't want to talk technical then respond to people who post in the practical forum.

What you say is practical and probably works for you, but you don't appear to understand the technical aspects of what you believe that you do in your swing.

I think we pretty much both understand and agree what it takes to execute a good swing. You just can't describe it in technical terms. I think parents that post on this technical forum are looking for more detail and science than you want to provide or can provide. If they weren't or felt they could not understand technical stuff, they wouldn't post on this area.

I'd be willing to bet, that if we met in person and could demo and talk back and forth with bats in our hands, we wouldn't be very far apart in what we believe is a good swing. And, I think I could clarify the technicalities for you more easily.

 

[RayR]

Exactly - Jeter comes to mind as a guy who has a swing so unique that no one would dare to use him as a model....he just gets it done at the highest level because he has figured out how to get the barrel to the ball....

Let's not waste anymore of our kids time on learning how to turn body parts when they would be served learning how to make adjustments with their hands....put them on one knee like the Casey drill and let them figure it out using their hands....

Hell I consider myself a pretty smart gent on a diamond. But techs are one dimensional. Techs are great for a base, it's the applying skills and adjustment for an ever changing environment ( pitch ) when one can see the true value of applied.

Good swings are needed, but for the most part they are "swung" for perfect swinging pitches in a zone. Ever see the mechanics for a needed foul, or a pull hitter staying alive on an outside pitch? They are adjustments per individual, you can't lump that over a 20 person roster. Drag, lunge, barrel path all have a place if you're any good at the game. But not on this thread, because most can't teach it. It's practical, and very few possess the mental ability and natural senses to make milli second adjustments.

The fact that exercises of technical knowledge are guided by propositions or rules seems to entail that they involve instructions that are universally applicable — the person acting on technical knowledge has an instruction booklet, which she reflects upon before acting. In contrast, part of the skill that constitutes skill at hitting involves reacting to situations for which no instruction manual can prepare you.

 

[HYP]

I would say, "No." What are the two models that you think exist? Everything I state, refers to the fundamental moves that exist in every MLB swing. That is the model I'm talking about. There are different stances, and different styles, but they all execute the same fundamental principles. All-star and HOF hitters have the principles refined and honed to the most efficient level.

IMO, the problem in this "technical hitting" forum is that people who have little to none, technical knowledge, argue with those who do. It's like someone who doesn't know what an atom is; walking into a college chemistry class and arguing with the professor that water is not made up of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. Then when the professor tries to educate them, they continue to deny that his info is correct.

Some people post here and argue the physics and bio-mechanics from a position of complete ignorance of the subjects, with people who have knowledge of those subjects. It baffles me.

And every crappy 8 year old swing. So the pro's are doing something different. Not just more efficient but different.

 

[CycloneSoftball22]

Now with over 400 posts is any of this intended to help the OP or is just a pissing contest at this point?

 

[RayR]

She looks like she is on the right path....it is just a pissing contest at this point

Now with over 400 posts is any of this intended to help the OP or is just a pissing contest at this point?

 

[Cannonball]

First, the OP is having some troubles getting rid of bat drag (thus the op) with his dd and so, I don't think I'd discount the fact that some players do have some issue when it comes to bat drag. Sure, a part of it is technical and might be easy for experienced posters to fix but that isn't the case here as a dad asked for help. I think this young lady's video shows improvement and so, read some of the early offerings and good luck.

MTS, you and I exchanged emails many moons ago and so, I understand your disdain for some of the ideas presented by a few members in this thread. However, per softball and success, some of the top programs in the U.S. use some of the scientific "gibberish" and one program in particular won an ASA National Championship using it. PaulN said, "you are only capable of seeing what you are capable of seeing." That speaks volumes in reality. I sit back and get a good chuckle as I constantly see people redefine terms and try to lay ownership to new concepts. PaulN's post where he showed the claymation of the pitcher really was an outstanding post given some of the concepts of throwing and hitting. Concepts like loading the back hip and riding it are evident in that BUT someone who wanted to talk in terms of the "Elvis Move" could also take that animation and say that their cue resulted in similar action. PaulN added the W to his term PCR so PCRW, I believe, is what he advocates now. Ok so many had a problem in the beginning with Setpro's stuff becuase it lacked the "W" aspect. With the "W" aspect, isn't PaulN adding in an aspect that others call "hands?" The constant attacks on some about "hands" is that the hands can only hold on to the bat. That is all that they can do. They can't think, move themselves through space etc. Most antagonist understand that and realize that the difference is how "hands" is defined. Yet, they can't help but take the shots. In this thread, we have those who define hands starting at the elbow and, imo, that if fine as long as they have defined what they mean so others can then get their point. I just don't see why PaulN and others continued to be attacked in that manner when everyone knows their meaning and that anatomically they are correct. (Now what controls hands but hands themselves!)

To the OP, you are doing the right thing by posting the video and getting ideas. Concepts like tipping and ripping are conducive to helping eliminate some of the problems that might be brought on by "dead hands" such as bat drag. I'm sure you can find enough video out there covering this concept. BTW, in this case the "hands" would be defined by forearms, wrist, and hands. Good luck!

 

[softballphreak]

Exactly - Jeter comes to mind as a guy who has a swing so unique that no one would dare to use him as a model....he just gets it done at the highest level because he has figured out how to get the barrel to the ball....

Let's not waste anymore of our kids time on learning how to turn body parts when they would be served learning how to make adjustments with their hands....put them on one knee like the Casey drill and let them figure it out using their hands....

To me, the technical stuff helps me understand why something is happening in the swing. The player doesn't necessarily have to understand, or even be told, the technical stuff. Of course, if you understand the technical stuff and you can translate it into something the player understands that's good, too.

It's difficult enough to understand what players are doing. I appreciate knowing as much as possible to be better able to recognize the cause and effect of any mechanical flaws. Anyone who has been studying these kinds of posts should be well aware of the many technicalities that contribute to a good or bad swing.

It may get long-winded at times but there's plenty to be learned if one takes the time to do it.