DD Bat Drag ?

[PaulN]

I see said the blind man.....

HYP

Quote Originally Posted by tom.guerry View Post
whatever you do, do not try to turn the bat in the plane of the shoulders by turning the shoulders and using the box formation. that is a guarantee of a long dragging swing with late batspeed forcing early/premature adjustment.
Definition of bat drag!

Shoulders line up with what the hands are doing. The hands do not line up with what the shoulders are doing.

Today, 01:27 PM
tom.guerry

whatever you do, do not try to turn the bat in the plane of the shoulders by turning the shoulders and using the box formation. that is a guarantee of a long dragging swing with late batspeed forcing early/premature adjustment.

What a wise man once said we are only capable of seeing what we are capable of seeing.

"I see" Longoria maintaining the box and turning the bat by rotating the upper torso (and the last time I checked shoulders were part of the upper torso).

This is also consistent with the physics of the swing i.e. the rotation of the more massive parts of the body i.e. upper torso generates momentum which is then transferred through the linkage provided by the shoulder muscles ( scapula muscle complex) upper arms, forearms, wrists and finally to the bat.

With respect to solving the bat drag problem, the "cue" of "turning the bat" may work for some players but unless you understand the role of posture that goes along with "turning the bat" you're not going to effectively ( under game situation) solved the bat drag problem. In other words what might look good hitting off of the tee is not going to transfer to a game situation.

 

[softballphreak]

I see, said the blind man. And he picked up his hammer and saw.

 

[RayR]

"I see" Longoria maintaining the box and turning the bat by rotating the upper torso (and the last time I checked shoulders were part of the upper torso).

 

[HYP]

What a wise man once said we are only capable of seeing what we are capable of seeing.

A wise man once told me, "Some people have so much invested, they will never see, or at least admit to it!"

"I see" Longoria maintaining the box and turning the bat by rotating the upper torso (and the last time I checked shoulders were part of the upper torso).

He is maintaining nothing. You may want to listen to your wise man. What you see is what was necessary for that pitch. The hands needed to get to the location of the inside pitch.

This is also consistent with the physics of the swing i.e. the rotation of the more massive parts of the body i.e. upper torso generates momentum which is then transferred through the linkage provided by the shoulder muscles ( scapula muscle complex) upper arms, forearms, wrists and finally to the bat.

Please use physics to describe this swing.

Jayla 9yo (11-9-12 Practice) - YouTube

And then please use physics to describe the above swing of Longoria.

Thanks

With respect to solving the bat drag problem, the "cue" of "turning the bat" may work for some players but unless you understand the role of posture that goes along with "turning the bat" you're not going to effectively ( under game situation) solved the bat drag problem. In other words what might look good hitting off of the tee is not going to transfer to a game situation.

The above I find amusing. See, IMO, the hold the box and turn hard looks good off of a tee but is to slow for game speed with little to no adjust-ability. In fact, what I teach doesn't look great off of a tee but it is short and quick with tons of adjust-ability in games.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Now I better understand why HI came up with the concept of the "GO frame".

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

 

[PaulN]

The "BOX"....

The "box" is a visualization concept to help understand how high-level players initiate the swing.

there are several concepts embodied in the "box" concept not the least of which are:

1. Momentum transfer from the torso to the bat.

2. Swing quickness.

In order to most efficiently transfer momentum from the torso to the bat that must be connected to the torso such that rotation the torso "carries" the bat with it. In other words the torso and the bat are connected at the very beginning of this swing and stay connected. This connection is depicted as a box consisting of the upper body (a line drawn through the shoulders), the upper arm, forearm of the lead arm ( top hand arm) in the final link from the hands to the back shoulder. This "box" rotates as a single unit.

Maintaining the box connection allows the quickest initiation of the swing i.e. the bat is immediately connected to the rotational plane of the upper torso (necessary for maximum momentum transfer and efficiency). It's been demonstrated that swings which initially dropped the back elbow before initiation of rotation of the upper body result in longer swings i.e. more time is required.

Initiating a swing by connection (maintaining the "box") is the exact opposite of bat drag. Also maintaining the box is not "spinning".

At the swing progresses the box then transitions to the bat head moving outwards due to forces produced by the wrists along with centripetal acceleration ( what you feel when you're writing on the outer edge of a merry-go-round i.e. want to fly off).

Hopefully this will help some better vision what is meant by "maintaining the box".

 

[RayR]

Just to be clear - are you saying that the shoulders and the hands are connected as such that rotation of the shoulders bring the hands around?

 

[tom.guerry]

http://firstpickclub.com/video/pvcbox3.gif

 

[jbooth]

Just to be clear - are you saying that the shoulders and the hands are connected as such that rotation of the shoulders bring the hands around?

I think you are asking PaulN, but if you don't understand that the shoulder rotation brings the hands around, you need to learn more about physics and bio-mechanics.

Turning the box doesn't mean that you cannot also use the hands to turn the barrel. There aren't mutually exclusive.

"Keep the hands back" which is a phrase used at the MLB level, is meant to insure that the hands get pulled around by the body. The bat is connected to the hands, therefore, the body puts the forward momentum into the handle. The forearms/wrists throw the barrel, AFTER the torso gets the hands moving.

You and others don't seem to understand this. Why would you put so much emphasis on driving the hips, if it wasn't meant to move the bat? Do you understand the kinetic link that exists in a baseball swing? You must connect the bat to the kinetic link, and that is done by keeping the hands back.

Do you not see his hands and shoulders turning simultaneously, like a box turning?

Sure, he uses his hands also, to throw the barrel, but the hands are moving because they are connected to his shoulders, which are turning.

From frame 21 to 50, the hands are going toward the plate. At 50, they change direction and go at the ball until 75. This simple change of direction creates the tangential acceleration of the barrel. The shoulder rotation is moving the hands. At frame 75, they change direction again, and pull in. This creates even more acceleration of the barrel. These moves, combined with a throwing action, give maximum velocity at impact.