coachlisle: stop telling hitters to hit the outside pitch deep

[FiveFrameSwing]

I am not buying into the fact you do not let the ball travel deeper for the outside pitch.

My point of contact is Anticipated. I Know when I am looking for an outside pitch,...... I know where my contact point should be, and I look to hit it at that point.

I will look to hit the inside pitch more out front, or I Will be jammed up.

I can hit inside out, but I will not hit it well.


You should ask yourself, how far outside are you talking about, and IMHO,, Bustos has it right.

Mann, an experiment I ran several years ago was to go down to the local HS, place a tee on the outside edge of home plate, vary the position of the tee in terms of depth (remaining on the outside edge), and then perform swings to hit the ball over the fence. You might consider running that experiment yourself.

To add to the experiment, I also located the pitch along the chalk line of the opposite batter’s box, again varying the depth, and performed swings to put the ball over the fence. If you are someone that buys into the Bustos’ Hitting Line, then this experiment will be an eye opener for you.

 

[knightsb]

Here is what I see: Some of the greatest hitters in baseball hitting the ball too far out front, off the end of the bat, and managing to hit the ball out of the infield and in front of the outfielders. The only reason it got out of the infield is because... They are the greatest hitters in baseball. I would aspire for more than that. The best hit in all of those clips was Jeter hitting one past the right fielder into the corner. In that hit, it looked to me he hit the ball a foot deeper than marked on the clip.

So are you saying the greatest hitters in baseball, who undoubtedly know they are to hit an outside pitch deeper, have a hard time adjusting and doing so?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I cannot believe you guys are giving this drivel the time of day.

Here is what I see: Some of the greatest hitters in baseball hitting the ball too far out front, off the end of the bat, and managing to hit the ball out of the infield and in front of the outfielders. The only reason it got out of the infield is because... They are the greatest hitters in baseball. I would aspire for more than that. The best hit in all of those clips was Jeter hitting one past the right fielder into the corner. In that hit, it looked to me he hit the ball a foot deeper than marked on the clip.

As far as good old Coach Lisle, I think I can survive without a peek into the secret hitting vault. Throwing the bucket of balls into a bownet pegged my bozometer. This shows up on my fb timeline about six times a day and I get irritated every time I see it.

You may be down playing reality just a bit.

There was a study on HRs based on location, and it wasn't just "some", but a large percentage of HRs on the outside edge of the plate had the depth no where near as deep as what many advocate. Collect your own data and see what you come up with. My investigation suggested that the conclusion was potentially valid.

 

[chrispots]

Good to see you back Mann...I haven't seen you post in a while...

It might not me the best idea to base your hitting philosophies off of one gif.

I can hit an inside pitch to right, what would that look like in a gif?
Ask and thou shall receive

Practice with putting the ball in several outside locations, the PRIME location, is DEEPER.

And it does NOT interfere with Reynolds theory of hitting the ball OUT FRONT, because you do hit the ball OUT FRONT, away from your body, because your body has not turned so far as it would on an inside pitch.


If you hit the outside pitch out front, and every hitter does at times, it tends to be a bit pushy arm swing, which happens, so what, good job hitting the ball.

I am free to change my mind, at any time, and do.


as an edit. the danger in teaching the deep outside pitch, is being LATE, on other pitches.
It happened to me. we worked hard outside with the team before districts, and we struggled.
I worked hard on inside the following day, and we went back to pounding the ball.

Inside - Out

Outside

Full clip is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQd95cNo24A

I only teach the deep outside pitch off the tee - never when there is timing involved for the concern of them being late...

I do have 2 questions though...

My point of contact is Anticipated. I Know when I am looking for an outside pitch,...... I know where my contact point should be, and I look to hit it at that point. You should ask yourself, how far outside are you talking about, and IMHO,, Bustos has it right.

Are you talking about anticipating the point of "the collision" or anticipating the location of the pitch? If it is anticipating the pitch location before the pitch is thrown, I can't agree with that....I suppose you could guess but to me, that would be about as successful than a a soccer goalie anticipating the location of a penalty kick

Lastly, assuming Bustos' stride foot landed at the front of the plate, how many of these balls would be fair balls? How many would be hit on the sweet spot? I don't know the exact answer but maybe 1/3 of them? I thought maybe 5 or 6?

CP

 

[Westwind]

Knight, I think they all get fooled by the best pitchers in baseball sometimes. I think they make monumentally excellent adjustments that allow them to make the best of a mistake and turn it into a hit. They make adjustments that lesser hitters couldn't make.

I despise most of those kind of sites. IMHO, everyone who posted in this thread and some that just thanked posters are a "who's who" of hitting wisdom better than the opportunists trying to shake down parents on those "Hi I'm Coach Goofy" websites.

Everybody here is better than that. Despite some very clearly drawn lines , clear differences in philosophy here at DFP, both sides are better than that foolishness.

 

[Westwind]

FFS, come on Brother! Maybe? Might?

You are better than that! I know you like to argue the other side but I don't buy it that you think hitting a pitch too far out front off the end of the bat is optimal!

I can't hang with any of you guys on the hyper technical discussions but I know for a fact that video is total b.s.! They went out and found clips and made an argument based on some happy accidents that turned out well.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

FFS, come on Brother! Maybe? Might?

You are better than that! I know you like to argue the other side but I don't buy it that you think hitting a pitch too far out front off the end of the bat is optimal!

I can't hang with any of you guys on the hyper technical discussions but I know for a fact that video is total b.s.! They went out and found clips and made an argument based on some happy accidents that turned out well.

WW, I don't have the resources to perform an exhaustive statistical study of HR hits located on the outer edge of the plate. What I am able to do is seek verification if the conclusion made sense ... and it is my opinion that the conclusion had teeth. So in regard to your comment about being "better than that" ... that's really the best I can do without consuming more resources than I wish to allocate to the topic.

As for avoiding the hyper technical discussion ...... simply run the experiment I described above. Let's see you hit a HR letting the ball get as deep as Bustos is shown above. Now, at what depth does that tee need to be for you to jack one over the fence? Let your own data speak to you. Said differently, how many HR hits can you compile where the ball is allowed to get as deep as with the Bustos tee swing above?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Knight, I think they all get fooled by the best pitchers in baseball sometimes. I think they make monumentally excellent adjustments that allow them to make the best of a mistake and turn it into a hit. They make adjustments that lesser hitters couldn't make.

I despise most of those kind of sites. IMHO, everyone who posted in this thread and some that just thanked posters are a "who's who" of hitting wisdom better than the opportunists trying to shake down parents on those "Hi I'm Coach Goofy" websites.

Everybody here is better than that. Despite some very clearly drawn lines , clear differences in philosophy here at DFP, both sides are better than that foolishness.

In the post just prior to your post, CP gave an example of inside & outside tee swings. I don't believe Pedroria was being "fooled" in those tee swings.

 

[Westwind]

FFS, I'm not arguing in favor of the Bustos video set up, nor am I arguing against you. Anyone who is used to looking at hitting can see Bustos sets the tee up extremely deep.

As far as hitting home runs, would some of the moderately hit balls in the original video have been hit harder if the hitter had hit it deeper and not off the end of the bat? If contact was on the sweet spot where the bat head had just been released and not where the bat head had released its energy an eternity prior? Those hits in the video were not even close to burning the outfielder, I'm not sure anybody here needs a statistical study to determine that those balls were in front of the outfielders, right?

 

[Westwind]

In the post just prior to your post, CP gave an example of inside & outside tee swings. I don't believe Pedroria was being "fooled" in those tee swings.

I was typing when you wrote that.

It does not surprise me that a major leaguer can hit an inside pitch hard oppo off a tee.

I think CP's post is a good one and worth considering.