Coaching Question

[Momo'sDad]

I have a question regarding a potential coaching probelm, and am looking for input from other parents.

We live in a rural area, with a high school population of about 1000 students. My daughter is 16, and has been playing ball for 11 years. 6 years of co-ed LL baseball, 2 years LL softball, 2 seasons of softball in middle school, 2 years of high school softball (1 year on freshmen and 1 year on JV). She's the starting third baseman, and bats 4th in the lineup. She has an amazing grasp of the fundamentals, is a team player with a good attitude and I have been honored by having many coaches tell me that they wish they had a team full of girls like her. Also, she happens to have a mom who is NOT a crazy parent. She does not play travel ball, as we simply can't afford it. But every year she attends all the pre season conditioning practices, as well as all the regular practices and games..........

And yet last year she was not chosen to play on Varsity. Instead 4 freshmen made Varsity, being chosen over juniors and sophmores with much more experience. I suspect the problem is with the coaches. The Varsity coach is a parent to one of the girls on Varsity (who incidentially make Varsity in freshmen year) and is also the coach of a travel ball team. All of the girls on the travel ball team have made Varsity, and vice versa. Many of the freshmen were made starters, and as a result there were seniors who sat out every inning of every game. Because of the glut of underclassmen, next season there will be 4 slots on Varsity, and my daughter has told me that they have been promised to the 4 freshmen who played on JV this year. Last year at the softball banquet the coach was making nice comments about my daughter and told me she'd have no problem makeing Varsity, and this year she won't even speak to me or my daughter. There are many girls who have said that they won't be trying out next year as seniors because they don't want to be cut after playing for three years.

I am really mystified by this bias behavior in the coaches. And am curious if others find it to be a conflict for the coach to be coaching both the Varsity team and travel ball team.

Any thoughts?

Comparing the relative experience of rec players vs TB players when they arrive at HS tryouts, the TB players generally show up with a tremendous advantage over those girls who've only played rec, even if they were all-star level players. The TB players will typically have a lot more game experience against consistently better competition. A top rec player's skills may not be as refined, because she has not been forced to get better in order to remain competitive, nor has she played nearly as many games.

For the record, I am not a proponent of the 200-game schedules some teams talk about, but a TB team playing a far more reasonable 75-100 game season is going to give its players an advantage over those girls playing a 50-game rec schedule.

In your case, I would be on the lookout for fundraising and sponsorship opportunities.

 

[chinamigarden]

I have become more and more convinced that travel ball players are better not because of the competition they face in games, but the competition they face in practice and tryouts. If you have no one pushing you for your spot on the team, all you have to do is maintain. If you have 3 girls who are all trying to take your spot at SS, catcher, pitcher, first base... you have to not only maintain but improve to keep your spot and your playing time.

 

[CoachKevin]

Well in the past 4-5 years I don't believe there were any players on Varsity that didn't have TB experience at our HS. In our hometown the parks and rec department refuses to align with any organization LL or whatever), and this does show on the field. During tryouts there was a definite difference that you could see when they were warming up throwing/catching.

 

[PA SB Dad]

One thing you should recognize is that a HS coach that also coaches TB, is that the coach just knows those players better. A few days of tryouts does not outweigh the the number of games a coach has worked with a set of players. Those players know how they should run the bases, know his cutoff throws, bunt coverage, trick plays, etc. It is a lot to teach all that to a new set of players all the time, and having a core of players that is familiar with your coaching system is a big advantage. That level of familiarity is hard to overcome. Two players being equal, I'm not sure I would choose the kid I didn't know versus the kids I know well. That being said, there is always a chance to prove yourself on the field, and move up. At the end of the day, results matter most, and if your DD is outplaying the girls on JV by a lot, she will have her chances on Varsity.

 

[HornetsCoach]

We had the exact same thread on here recently, the coach is favoring "her" players. Its one of the lowest forms of coaching behaviors since it violates everything they are supposed to be doing so that - at the end of the day - they benefit themselves.

You and everyother parent who are getting obviously screwed should be in the athletic directors office with pitchforks and torches asap.

 

[Sparky Guy]

Comparing the relative experience of rec players vs TB players when they arrive at HS tryouts, the TB players generally show up with a tremendous advantage over those girls who've only played rec, even if they were all-star level players. The TB players will typically have a lot more game experience against consistently better competition. A top rec player's skills may not be as refined, because she has not been forced to get better in order to remain competitive, nor has she played nearly as many games.

The HS my DD attended would have 120 kids show up to tryouts for all three levels. DD told me that during the first day of tryouts the coach had the girls warming up and running some sprints. One of the girls who showed up with deck shoes and a new glove never stopped running after about the 5th sprint. She kept going and ran out the door of the field house never to be heard from again. The head coach looked at one of the assistants and asked if she got the girl's number. All the of the experienced travel players all kind of chuckled and went back to warming up.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

KellzBellz - There is a good chance that I know who you are talking about. My DD played HS ball there. (Although you don't mention the HS) It is a small world.

 

[David Carter]

Was kind of hard to tell if your DD is a sophomore and is not making varsity as a junior or whether she is making the JV team as a sophomore. If she is playing third and batting 4th on the JV team, I would think the coach would know who she is and that she is one of the best girls on JV but maybe she is just the best girl on JV. Like other posters here I think you would be hard pressed to find a HS coach leaving a girl that is head and shoulders above other girls on the bench or on JV, at that level they really want to win and will (usually) put the best 9 out there. The problem comes in when girls are equal in talent, all things being equal (or close) they will take the girls they know every time and you can't really blame them because they know exactly what they have versus an unknown.

As far as coach taking money from players for anything other than TB related expenses (uniforms, tourney fees, etc.) that would seem to cross the line. Players should not be paying their HS coach for coaching them.

 

[BaldNBeautiful]

THIS MAY NOT APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE ORIGINAL POST:
I once observed a local high school program (very rural area) get what was probably its best group of freshmen ever. There were Eight or nine girls that had (for the first time in this community gone through four years of Rec ball, then two years of middle school ball. Several of the girls played some travel ball after entering MS. Kind of a big deal to have girls coming in that did not have to be taught how to throw, or that had only played LL Baseball.
The HS coaches worked hard to help the girls find teams to play on during the summer. But some wanted to "have a life" and "just have fun playing ball" some wanted to play multiple sports and didn't have the time. However some played travel ball, worked out in the off-season, and set goals for themselves. Another Dad and I took some grief for constantly reminding the other girls of the opportunity and the benefits of playing travel ball.
To make a long story short, by the time they were seniors only four were still on the team: two multisport athletes and two that were softball exclusively (and played travel ball nearly every chance they got). The two multisport athletes were by far the better "athletes" but skill wise were not that much better than they were as freshmen. The two that played travel ball were all-conference, and have since signed to play in college.
The other dad and I disagree on several points, but we agree on this one: if a kid is serious about playing and getting better, they will find avenues (outside coaching, travel ball, camps, etc.) and not just rely on being an upperclassman. iT COULD BE THAT THE COACHES SEE COMMITMENT from the TB players, and see less of it in the non-TBers.
I know that this may not apply to the situation as originally described, but as a coach I want to see kids that really want to improve. I would much rather my daughters take some time away from the lake, or movies etc, and be with me (or someone else) taking grounders or flyballs, or working on their hitting.

 

[PGSAKen]

Ill play Devils advocate.

As a club coach i see my girls literally year round. They play a hundred games and take (free) a hundred lessons from my staff. I have seen my girls abilities but more important their perserverance and potential.

Your daughter has not gotten much viewing time by the staff compared to his year round players. Also they have played the best competition (as rec and even hs ball is not the same level of comp as travel)

Also (fair or not) I have spent so much time with my tb girls that I have formed tight relationships with the players AND the families swaying my decisions.

A HS coach is doing what he thinks is best to build a long term successful program. The reasons above give the f girls a distinct advantage over yours.

For example my daughter split games pitching last night on a 14U rec team. Shes barely 11 and the other pitcher is a freshman. My daughter was clearly a better (faster, more accurate, threw more than a fastball) pitcher thn the freshman. Now at this rate how will my daughter be as a freshman vs the senior. One works year round and the other works for 4 months at a time......

Perspective.