Cheating or Aggressive Base Running?

[MoJo]

Back from my worldly (and intergalactic, even!) travels in seeking out ancient and mystic forms of wisdom on this matter ... I'm going to post separate posts so we can try to keep comments directed at the specific issues.

@RADcatcher , I thought I posted this earlier, but maybe I did not. Here is the 2020 NFHS Softball rule on unsportsmanlike conduct: 3-6-13 (Rule 3, Players, Substitutes, and Coaches, Section 6 Bench and Field Conduct)

ART. 13 . . . Unsporting acts shall not be committed, including, but not limited to: a. use of words or actions to incite or try to incite spectators to demonstrate. b. use of profanity, intimidation and/or deceitful tactics, baiting or taunting; or NOTE: The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting which is intended or designed to embarrass, ridicule or demean others under any circumstances, including race, religion, gender or national origin. c. behavior in any manner not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.
ART. 14 . . . Team personnel shall not charge an umpire.
ART. 15 . . . Arguing ball and strike calls or other umpire judgment calls is prohibited.
ART. 16 . . . Team personnel shall not deliberately throw bats, helmets or any other piece of equipment.
PENALTY: (Arts. 11 through 16) The umpire shall eject the offender from the game, unless the offense is judged to be of a minor nature. If minor, the umpire may warn the offender and eject if the offense is repeated (Art. 13). For coaches who violate, the umpire may restrict the offender to bench/dugout for the remainder of the game, or eject the offender.

Nowhere in there are we granted the authority to call the runner out sans appeal.

So ejection it is.

Is MIB going to eject coach, player, or both?

How about the post event report and a suspension

 

[_MIA_]

OBR (Major League Baseball rules) says the runner is entitled to retouch protection, just as he would having inadvertently missed the base or leaving early on a fly ball. None of them deal directly with the offense itself.

If that happened in MLB somebody would be getting one in the ribs..

 

[scudly12]

Umpires failed.

The 3rd base umpire told the plate umpire the runner missed the bag if there is an appeal. The coach has to appeal. Short stop should probably have seen this unless she really missed something. This team practices this play according to one of their players (confirmed to a club teammate). I have heard the coach is no longer employed by the school, but I haven’t confirmed that yet.

When it is this blatant the umpires maybe should have suggested an appeal, but not sure that would have been acceptable either.


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[LRH1969]

oh my. coach should of appealed for 2nd base runner to be out. If this was an important game, I dont understand why we didnt go home to get outs?? Or at least get the second run coming in out. We usually have enough parents crying foul that the coach catches on...lol.

 

[marriard]

I was always taught the "appeal play" is a remnant of the days when umpires were true arbiters and only ruled in disputed calls the teams made themselves.

Could be an old myth.

I do not understand what is hard about this. The umpire CANNOT rule the runner out by rule. The defense MUST appeal. The umpire CAN eject the offenders BUT still CANNOT rule the runner out.

I am still on the fence with intent. I am still trying to find the case play or interpretation I mentioned before ... with that, I am OK with an ejection based on NFHS recognizing this is happening. Without that, the ground is a little less firm on intent. Unless you are the JUCO baseball team who pulled it six times in one season (Dawson Community College, Montana). Then your org/conference is calling you out.

I am not a mind reader so I without being 100% sure it was fully intentional I just can't. Basically I need a confession. Which has happened a few times in my umpiring career. Two stand out...

Once in a different sport, I had a similar type of bush league tactic where the idiot coach came out yelling at us (because for some reason he was upset we had caught it???) and told us he intentionally did it, so we ejected him.

We did the same locally on 'intentionally running to 1st on ball 3 to try to get a free steal of second' - the coach kept gloating on how he was doing this between games which made its way other coaches and all the umpires, so he got tossed the next time he did it.

 

[radness]

The 3rd base umpire told the plate umpire the runner missed the bag if there is an appeal. The coach has to appeal. Short stop should probably have seen this unless she really missed something. This team practices this play according to one of their players (confirmed to a club teammate). I have heard the coach is no longer employed by the school, but I haven’t confirmed that yet.

When it is this blatant the umpires maybe should have suggested an appeal, but not sure that would have been acceptable either.


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There is more going on in that situation than just the possibility of an appeal play.
Perhaps you didn't read through the other responses in the thread. lot of replys here-in.

Umpires failed because they did not follow through with applying some sort of officiating into the moment which could have been an ejection.

 

[Mike-Oviatt]

Umpires failed.

The umpire has nothing to do there until an appeal by the defensive team. I have seen this video multiple times now and it always ends there. According to some threads the defensive team never appealed the runner missing third. I would love to see a longer video which includes up to the next pitch which would then end the play and an appeal would no longer be available.

 

[Mike-Oviatt]

Two umpire system taken advantage of. With it being on video and the word that it was designed play, I would hope that this will be addressed by the AD with a stiff punishment or possible resignation by the coach. This will forever be this teams legacy attached to their time at state. You coach and play the game with integrity. But once again the adults ruin it for the kids.

Rewatch the video. It was a three man crew. Regardless the umpire at third has no call until the defensive team appeals the runner missing third base

 

[radness]

The umpire has nothing to do there until an appeal by the defensive team. I have seen this video multiple times now and it always ends there. According to some threads the defensive team never appealed the runner missing third. I would love to see a longer video which includes up to the next pitch which would then end the play and an appeal would no longer be available.

Rewind, Repeat, ....


The umpire's not applying any officiating
( to include unsportsmanlike conduct)
which can include an ejection of the player/coach
(that does not take an appeal)
is where the umpires failed.

Hope that clarifies where I am saying they failed. This is not just an appeal situation there is more going on that is beyond that.

 

[GIMNEPIWO]