Can travel ball kill a rec. league?

[SoCal_Dad]

The core ASA rules actually make it mandatory to participate in a rec league in order to play B class travel ball. Many organizations get away with pathetic interpretations of "participate" though.

SoCal ASA keeps travel (Class A) and rec (Class B) separated. They heavily regulate how rec leagues operate to be eligible for Class B championship play. From their regs:

A recreation league is defined as follows:
1. An organized league that is associated with a recognized neighborhood or community.
2. Participation is open to any interested youth.
3. Tryouts or demonstration of skills is not required for participation.
4. Some type of draft, draw or other acceptable method is used to ensure equitable distribution of talent amongst all the league teams.
5. All teams must be approved by the league Board of Directors.

NOTE: Leagues that split their Age Classifications based on skill level must have at least six teams in the advanced classification, regardless of the method used to create the split Age Classification, including but not limited to player evaluations, league assignments and/or parent requests.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

How picky are they about this? The girls on our tb team dont even have rec leagues to play in. Most rec leagues in our area dont go beyond 12u.

It varies by the area of the country. In SoCal, travel teams are only allowed in Class A. Class B championship play starts at the district level and they only allow 1 team from each league. In other areas of the country, they only care if your check clears.

 

[FP26]

It varies by the area of the country. In SoCal, travel teams are only allowed in Class A. Class B championship play starts at the district level and they only allow 1 team from each league. In other areas of the country, they only care if your check clears.

Thanks SoCal_Dad. We try to do everything "by the book". Unfortunately we don't have a rec league DD can play in because of her age (she enjoyed rec ball when she was eligible and I am sure she would still play if a team existed), and her school does not offer a junior high program. Therefore, TB is her only opportunity to play softball until she gets to 9th grade.

 

[dadonachair]

I would have to respectfully disagree. We put in the work and offer to volunteer every season. We put in the work but most times the outcome is out of your hands. If not a higher power, the league pres, coaches other parents ect. So I just chalk most thing that happen to it being what it's meant to be. I make the difference that I can. You can't care or make other people do much of anything.

GatorGirl the above quote is the answer. Most of us buckett dads can answer your question. The ones that put in the work are the ones that want something better. If you want the answer go watch a rec game with nothing but rec players that are 14u if you can find a game to go watch. Then go watch a 14u travel ball tourny. You will see the difference in pitching, fielding, hitting, coaching, and most of all attitude of the players. We went to a High school basket ball game last night. When we sat down and other parents asked what we were doing and I said we were on the way home from the batting cages they looked at me funny. When I told them she pitched to me for an hour then worked on fielding for a while and I did front toss to her for about a hundred swings. "They said why?" I said March is 8 Sunday practices away.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Thanks SoCal_Dad. We try to do everything "by the book". Unfortunately we don't have a rec league DD can play in because of her age (she enjoyed rec ball when she was eligible and I am sure she would still play if a team existed), and her school does not offer a junior high program. Therefore, TB is her only opportunity to play softball until she gets to 9th grade.

Many/most of the leagues in our area only had enough players at 14U to form 1-2 teams, so the leagues set up an interleague schedule for their 14U teams to play each other in the spring. Same thing happens at younger ages with small leagues. As long as they don't play in Class A championship play events (e.g. qualifiers), they are eligible for Class B according to ASA's national rules (i.e. ASA Code). The number and types of events for Class B varies greatly by area of the country and ASA's strength there.

 

[PA SB Dad]

It varies by the area of the country. In SoCal, travel teams are only allowed in Class A. Class B championship play starts at the district level and they only allow 1 team from each league. In other areas of the country, they only care if your check clears.

You are so right! You would not believe the number of TB teams in PA that register and play as ASA B teams. They don't understand the classification rules, and just assume that what they register as in USSSA is just the same for ASA. If they had Class C (or D!), many would do it!

 

[#10]

In our case, while there is a slow drain of kids to travel, the rec league is doing a pretty good job of killing itself due to the ego and self-serving nature of the board members.

Last season, we had six teams in 12U. One was managed by a brand new board member who was tight with the softball coordinator, the other five by very nice people with ZERO coaching experience. The problem was that there were at least four experienced coaches (myself included, we won the 10U title the previous season) who were told that there was no teams available to manage. The end result was that the coaching inexperience showed on the field, and there were a lot of parents angry that their kids weren't progressing.

Based on the dissatisfaction with the regular season, seven of the 12U kids asked to play all stars declined, choosing instead to pick up with travel teams. This resulted in an all star team where nine of the twelve on the roster were first year 12U players, which would potentially make a great core to come back for the 2014 season. Six of those nine (my DD included) went straight to travel after the all star season ended with no intention of coming back to rec.

Team stacking, favoritism and politics do more to hurt rec programs than travel ball ever can.

 

[YOCOACH]

In our case, while there is a slow drain of kids to travel, the rec league is doing a pretty good job of killing itself due to the ego and self-serving nature of the board members.

Last season, we had six teams in 12U. One was managed by a brand new board member who was tight with the softball coordinator, the other five by very nice people with ZERO coaching experience. The problem was that there were at least four experienced coaches (myself included, we won the 10U title the previous season) who were told that there was no teams available to manage. The end result was that the coaching inexperience showed on the field, and there were a lot of parents angry that their kids weren't progressing.

Based on the dissatisfaction with the regular season, seven of the 12U kids asked to play all stars declined, choosing instead to pick up with travel teams. This resulted in an all star team where nine of the twelve on the roster were first year 12U players, which would potentially make a great core to come back for the 2014 season. Six of those nine (my DD included) went straight to travel after the all star season ended with no intention of coming back to rec.

Team stacking, favoritism and politics do more to hurt rec programs than travel ball ever can.

That and the inability/lack of desire to change their rules to be more competitive. Usually it's to lower the competition to make it more equitable. For example, there were/are no FP teams before 12u in our old rec league when we left 4 years ago. There were 8 12u slowpitch teams and 4 12u fastpitch teams. This means no pitcher or catcher development since there were no 8u or 10u FP teams. SP does not allow stealing for obvious reasons. Because of this, the FP regulations were no stealing of home. The BOD said it was for the safety of the players since there was no catcher development. Any team that could talk a pitcher from another league to join them was usually dominant. So then the BOD limited the number of innings a pitcher could pitch. The 12u FP became a joke. Now, there are no FP teams except for one 14u team which plays in a separate league (plays other township teams in the area) under the local rec league name and the 12u SP side had to combine with another league in order to field 5 teams between the two. More often than not, the rec leagues are their worst own enemies.

 

[Elk Grove Hurricane]

The short answer to the original question is yes. This isn't an opinion, not based on values or saying which is better, but just acold, calculated look at the leagues that I see. It's a numbers game, the number of girls who still want to play at the older levels drops, the number of travel teams increases, and the number of girls left for rec ball drops. Strangely, the prevailing mentality isn't what I thought it would be, as instead of being encouraged by the chance to stand out in rec ball as more girls depart for travel ball, most girls locally decide they'd rather do something else than play with the remaining kids. In our league's 10u program there were 14 teams. Same league had 8 12 u teams, and they combined 13-16 to have 6 or 8. And I think our league does better than most as most of the neighboring cities have even smaller numbers.
Now I'll admit that the leagues weren't technically "killed" by Travel ball as they do exist, but they are so different from 12u up than they are from 10u down that they are hardly recognizable as the same league.

 

[left turn]

I have been in charge of registration for our town league for some years now. Retention rates are something we pay attention to and try to affect. We are trying to create a program where the girls want to come back next year.

Below are the average girls' retention rates over a 7 year period. This follows the same players through the system. For example it compares the registration numbers from last year's first grade versus this year's second grade and so on. For the whole girls program, the retention rate was 83%.

Average Retention rates
K to 1st 78%
1st to 2nd 90%
2nd to 3rd 98%
3rd to 4th 93%
4th to 5th 86%
5th to 6th 86%
6th to 7th 87%
7th to 8th 77%

Total 87%