Can travel ball kill a rec. league?

[PA SB Dad]

We have Little League as our local rec league, and we have kept rec league and travel teams strictly as separate entities, even though we have players that participate in both. My DD played both from 10U to 12U. She played LL because that is where all of her school friends were, but she enjoyed the competition in TB much better. After 12U, most of her school friends stopped playing softball altogether, so the draw for rec league really wasn't there for her, so stopped playing LL after Majors (12U). It's a fairly common and natural progression.

There are some Little Leagues that form travel teams specifically to get better for the LL tournament at the end of the year, hoping that they get to the LLWS. Those types of teams have to have their players play in the rec league games because of the participation requirements for the LL All Star teams and tournaments. Those are the leagues that I see where the rec league tends to sustain itself in the younger age groups. But after 12U, I usually see them fall apart as well since the best players go to better TB teams, and the other girls lose interest.

 

[justanotherguy]

Our little town has gone through a very hard time based on the decision of greedy politicians, so it really destroyed what little of a softball program there was. I believe there was about 4 10u teams. After the big split the were left with almost nothing and what few rec players there were went to other towns. Travel softball doesn't seem to be huge here in eastern NC, at least not compared to baseball. My DD is 10 and plays baseball, but she occasionally fills in for travel SB teams. There's only one travel team based out of our town whereas I'd have to really think about how many baseball teams are out of this area... it's in the teens when you take all age groups into account. All the teams she's played for has been based at least 30 miles away from us.

To the OP, have you given baseball a consideration at all? If your daughter is competitive then I'll bet she'd get a real kick out of it. If your local league is anything like ours, then rec softball has always gotten the scraps, as sad as that is. The baseball programs get the good fields, practice and game times. I've also found a MASSIVE divide in skill between rec softball vs travel whereas the divide isn't as huge with rec baseball vs travel. She'll be challenged and her skills will really grow. The only skill that doesn't translate between the two is pitching. If she likes softball for the social aspect then obviously baseball isn't a fit, but if she loves the game then I'd suggest just letting her try it out.

 

[FP26]

I think the two programs can co-exist and can help each other if handled properly. The system described by starsnuffer is very intriguing to me. But this type of system would require strong leadership with no hidden agendas. Ultimately it is the leadership of the league that will decide if it will succeed or fail.

Your DD seems a lot like mine. She was also not interested in TB at that age. She was happy with rec. It wasn't until she participated in the LL All Star tournament one year that she really developed the desire to play TB.

justanotherguy offers some sound advice as well. Some of the better softball players in our area played baseball first. Our area is similar in that BB is far more popular than softball and receives most of the financial backing in our area. However, I know your DD also wants to pitch, so BB is probably not an option for her. That said, my DD did not pitch at the age of 9. That desire did not come until she was 11. If I could go back, I probably would have had her play baseball the first 2 or 3 years.

 

[GatorGirl]

Honestly she doesn't want to play travel, but wants the to play rec. and this is what my concerns were based around. Will rec. still be there for her when she turns 12? Right now she is so active in many things and maybe by 12 she will be able to say, "this is what I want", but right now she is still testing the waters.


So, while my comments are misguided I guess, I just want the rec. league to still be there and have all of the fun without the drama that what this little adventure could bring. If we had several hundred kids, I couldn't care less, but we are dealing with a group of 45-50 so you can see how it could disband very quickly.

And yes, I have offered to volunteer countless times. I have made one last attempt to volunteer to head up getting one of our softball fields lit up. If this doesn't get me in the door. I am kinda done trying to volunteer.

GG

 

[FP26]

Having people involved in the program that are interested in keeping rec ball alive will definitely be a help. If there are other parents in your area with similar views, try to get them to help you build the program. "Strength in numbers!". Although my DD only does TB now (no rec available in my area past 12U), she really enjoyed rec and would probably still play if it was an option. I am a big fan of rec and wish you the best of luck!

 

[cuzmail]

Yes it can, but I would blame it on the league.

Why? Because most leagues do not have (or can not find) the foresight to create a bridge between introduction league ball and tournament ball. They create the same product for both a neighborhood player and a kid who has developed higher skills. So when the dedicated kid plays for a year or two, they move on to travel ball to serve their needs instead of remaining with the league as an advanced player.

Eventually all advanced players will leave the league, but it happens very early now since there is no place for them to go.

 

[mogsoftball]

Yes it can, but I would blame it on the league.

Why? Because most leagues do not have (or can not find) the foresight to create a bridge between introduction league ball and tournament ball. They create the same product for both a neighborhood player and a kid who has developed higher skills. So when the dedicated kid plays for a year or two, they move on to travel ball to serve their needs instead of remaining with the league as an advanced player.

Eventually all advanced players will leave the league, but it happens very early now since there is no place for them to go.

This is EXACTLY what happened with us.

Our last year of travel there were only a couple of grils who could warm up throwing with my DD, the rest would ask her not to throw so hard. We spent so much time trying to get the less developed girls up to speed our more advanced players didn't get enough training to advance any further. The skill level between the bottom and top of the team was just to much of a gap.

Some of us asked the league about making an all star team, being able to select the players to be on the team and maybe participate in 1 or 2 tournaments in the area.

If the league would have agreed to it we would proabbaly still be there, instead they would have no part of having a hand selected allstar team.

So last year all the best players left the rec progam in my daughters age group. With mixed 11 or 12 they were still able to have 1 team in rec.

This year even more players left for travel and they will probably have 1 mixed team of mostly 11 YO as most '01 girls are gone now.

It was the insistance of just mixing up the girls regardless of skill level, and nothing beyond our 12 or 13 games in the seasonl that really made a lot of us leave. The opportunity to grow and improve just wasn't there for us.

 

[softball88]

I like what cuzmail said...

But in my area of the country I see a lot of boys and girls playing soccer. 30 years ago boys and girls were playing baseball/softball. Your losing out to other sports too. (We have spring/summer and fall soccer.) I also think the local rec leagues need to be involved with the schools...notes home to parents on sign-up dates etc...Our rec leagues don't do this anymore.

 

[Dana Marque]

In our town, one needs to play rec in order to be on the town travel team. The down side to this is when a really good player is playing rec, they play down from their ability. I've seen it first hand from a few good players in our town. My DD is also a pitcher and they have won everything for the past 3 years. I think they lost only one game. Watching the girls jump from the plate because they are scared of the pitches is not really helping anyone. All it is doing is giving my daughter the reps she needs and scarying a few girls from softball.

This year alone, we have lost 3 good players (including my DD) to club. It's my understanding they may not have a travelball 14U team this year. When it comes to town travel, I would have my DD play up for the competition. In club, I leave her where she belongs (12U). Anyway, it was the best thing for my DD as she didn't really think she needed to practice because there was no one to compete with. Now on club, she has raised her standards and is working really hard to improve.

My DD has also decided she wanted to play rec this year but is not committed. Will play only when she can. I think she wants to keep her running long championship title. It also lets her be a superstar with her friends. She has also agreed to fill in with travel if they have a team. Again, she will play only when she can.

Our president of the league is also letting parents know that this is a good time to try-out for travel. Positions that were normally filled with the dominant players are now open. It will give the good player kids an opportunity to shine in a position that they may not be able to have played previously.

But I do hate watching really talented players play rec. I know they can throw the ball harder to first base but they don't want to hurt their friends. Now if you have a few good players on a rec team, it's fun to see the girls play but unfair. My opinion is to use travel to raise their level of play. Girls are more committed. This is the step before committing to a club team.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

What we did was move the games to weeknights only, 2 games a week on either mon/wed or tue/thurs, leaving the weekends and fridays free for travel. We also pushed the season back deeper into the summer so to allow high school kids (mostly JV players) to play rec ball as well. Now, the league has grown a bit but has 190 kids playing travel ball, with multiple teams at 12u, 14u, 16u, and 18u. It also has a successful 18u rec program. All of the travel players MUST play rec ball. There are rules and considerations for exceptions and of course fall ball has its own set of rules as there is no rec ball at that time.

If your travel and rec overlap and you try to have rec games when tournaments are going on, you're going to have issues. What you want is for the travel players to bring back what they learned to the rec teams to make the org better as a whole. You also have to adopt the mentality that kids leaving to play A ball is not a bad thing, infact it is a good thing. When a kid gets good enough in your org to move up then you have accomplished the goal of instilling a love of softball in a kid and teaching the game. Rec/B leagues are all about teaching the game and giving a taste of higher level play. They are not an all-encompassing 4th Reich of softball.

Your approach is the only one I've seen that really keeps the travel players in the program. Having travel teams without interaction with the rest of the rec league doesn't really count in my book. Besides having the players bring back what they've learned in travel, I presume the adults also contribute and the rec-only portion benefits by better coaching.

I am curious how the 2 groups get along together on the midweek rec teams. Do the rec-only people resent being relegated to just midweek participation? Do the travel people embrace participating in the midweek program or are they constantly complaining about the level of play and being forced to be there? The people that can't embrace it need to either get an attitude adjustment or join a regular travel team.

Another aspect of having travel teams in a rec org that seems problematic to me is managing the supply of capable players with available slots. Seems like insufficient talent yields weak teams and too much talent causes problems with the people that don't make the travel teams. How do you manage that?