Can runner advance?

[CJ D]

First, amazing site....I just found it and don't know how I did without it! I hope y'all don't mind but I'll be a pest here. Lol

Anyway, I coach 12U TB. And amazingly, there are still teams who attempt to steal second after a walk with a runner on third. We usually have our pitcher toss to our second baseman who stands in the base path and tags the girl as she rounds first. But, that requires throws, and as we all have seen, even the best 12 year old is prone to an errant throw.

My question is this...and probably a stupid one...when does the walked batter assume her spot at first base? If instead of running that play, we simply tossed the ball back to the pitcher quickly and had her stand on the mound, has she taken her spot and the runner can't leave the bag? Just trying to think how else we can get "free" outs with less throws.

 

[Comp]

Getting the ball to the pitcher in the circle does not stop playing action, it merely turns on the look back rule once the batter/runner has reached 1st. As long as the BR does not stop on 1st they are perfectly legal to attempt to advance to 2nd. If your pitcher does not attempt to make a play on any runner, as soon as the BR touches 1st base the look back rule is in effect and any other runners on base must immediatly advance or return to their base.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

So, if your pitcher stands in the circle with the ball, the runner can just keep going to 2nd base. Some people don't even mess with trying to stop the advancement at 12U, since the runner is probably going on the next pitch, anyway.

 

[smddad]

Don't worry, this usually stops by 14U. The coaches realize they don't want to trade the run for an out so they take 2nd the next pitch on catcher's indifference. At higher levels, they don't even risk the steal with great catchers who will throw down and take the out.

Search for 'defense of the continuation play' for more information.

 

[ignition]

Don't worry, this usually stops by 14U..... At higher levels, they don't even risk the steal with great catchers who will throw down and take the out.

So at the higher levels the runner on third still won't take home?

 

[CoogansBluff]

So at the higher levels the runner on third still won't take home?

Generally speaking ...

Lower level - If you chase the walked runner going to second, you MIGHT get an out, and the run WILL score.
Higher level - If you chase the walked runner going to second, you WILL get an out, and the run MIGHT NOT score.

Therefore, it's no longer a wise play for the offense to send the runner directly to 2B after a walk and before the next pitch because it's an out. Outs are too expensive to waste like this vs. a good defense.

 

[David Carter]

Ask yourself this question: If the runner stops at first and the batter is taking the first pitch am I throwing down to second, if the answer is no I just would not worry so much about delaying the inevitable.

and Yes at higher levels girls are capable of making very sophisticated judgements, the catcher will throw down and catch runner stealing if runner at third goes SS or 2B will have a chance of throwing the runner coming home out. but they will take numerous things into account speed of all the runners, what the score is, arm strength of players, maybe they just step in front and throw home if they see runner at third breaking, in other words the make a calculated decision of what they want to do that is very situation dependent that girls at 12U just can't process or have the physical skill to accomplish yet.

One thing I would do at 12U is never let a team do this with 2 outs if they a silly enough to try, you only have to make one throw, just make sure you position the fielder close enough to the runner to tag the runner before runner from third can get home

 

[smddad]

So at the higher levels the runner on third still won't take home?

I had a 10U team that put a stop to this. They would immediately get the ball back to the pitcher. When BR rounded 1st, the runner on 3rd would have to head back to the bag or head home. Pitcher would be in the back of the circle waiting for the runner to get close to 2nd. She would snap a quick throw to the SS, who tagged the runner than fired home to tag the runner.

Once we we got a couple double plays, word spread. Nobody tried it again. Instead, the waited until the next pitch and stole 2nd.

 

[CJ D]

Thanks for the replies. We stop this play easily, but as I said, it requires a throw. My question wasn't if the pitcher was in the circle, obviously as long as the runner doesn't hesitate she is fine. My question was more so if the pitcher is on the rubber before the girl reaches first base. I understand that a runner can not leave the bag if the pitcher has the ball on the mound. I guess what I am asking is would it still just be a continuation of the play even if the pitcher is on the rubber...not merely in the circle. My thinking is that it is simply a continuation even if the pitcher is on the rubber. Just one of those crazy thoughts I had yesterday.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Re-read Comp's post. If you overthink it, the LBR can be ridiculously complicated to understand. Back in rec, a pitcher having the ball in the circle or on the rubber as you described would generally stop the running action. But that's not how real softball (we're ASA out here) is governed.

The challenge question you should ask Comp is: "If the bases are empty and a batter draws a walk, can the B-R legally advance all the way around the bases and come in to score, even though the ball was returned to the pitcher in the circle immediately after ball 4 and has been in the pitcher's possession in the circle the entire time with no attempted plays made?"