Boys in a Girls League

[mikeh25]

Locally the PONY league baseball league allows girls on their teams in their pre-T, T and Coach Pitch (generally less than 9 years old). I always try to talk parents out of this - let the girl learn and play the game she will have to play as she gets older, but some parents like the convenience.

I have read stories about the girl who plays baseball/football/soccer on a boy's team into her teens / HS sports. I have not seen much on the opposite. Generally there is a controversy when a girl plays on a boy's team. I know that in HS sports the girl is allowed under some kind of 'no equivalent sport' - i.e. no girl's football program.

This spring we have a girls 8&U Coach Pitch team that is rostering a boy.

Our local softball league has a set of by-laws that states that we are a "girls" league. We are not sanctioned, but base our rules on USSSA. I cannot find anything allowing (or disallowing) co-ed in youth in USSSA. The Divisions are labeled as Boys or Girls though.

Anyone have any experience with a local league allowing boys?

If so what are the limitations (if any) placed either on the boy or the number of boys? (age, positions, etc.)

Would it be legal to disallow a boy on a girls team, Equal Rights and all that?

I know that he is only 8, but I would not put it past some of the winning-is-the-only-thing coaches around here to try something like this on purpose.

Thanks for your input.

 

[starsnuffer]

The simple solution is to allow it, but change the uniform regulations to enforce the wearing of skirts and bobby socks. If he stays, I wouldn't worry too much about the competition factor.

-W

 

[Momo'sDad]

Most 8-9yo boys couldn't make my team.

 

[mikeh25]

Well, at that age it should be both genders anyway. I would assume that if a boys league exists, he cannot play in the girls league.

The girls were historically not allowed to play so that makes a difference in who is allowed to do what from an organizational perspective, not just any ideas about who is stronger, etc. Actually girls are often bigger and taller than boys in pre-teen years.

There is no boy's softball around here only baseball and lots of it.

Around here, defensively there are some rec 8&U boys that handle that baseball better than most rec 12&U girls handle a softball - size of the player, while possibly intimidating is not the problem.

Been invovled with this rec league for over ten years, never had the issue of a boy playing come up - had some people whine about girls that looked like a boy though!

 

[MTR]

Why is this even a discussion? Regardless of age, there should be no discrimination based upon gender.

You cannot waive around Title IX like the holy grail in one hand and push someone away because of their gender with the other.

 

[SoftSocDad]

Locally the PONY league baseball league allows girls on their teams in their pre-T, T and Coach Pitch (generally less than 9 years old). I always try to talk parents out of this - let the girl learn and play the game she will have to play as she gets older, but some parents like the convenience.

I have read stories about the girl who plays baseball/football/soccer on a boy's team into her teens / HS sports. I have not seen much on the opposite. Generally there is a controversy when a girl plays on a boy's team. I know that in HS sports the girl is allowed under some kind of 'no equivalent sport' - i.e. no girl's football program.

This spring we have a girls 8&U Coach Pitch team that is rostering a boy.

Our local softball league has a set of by-laws that states that we are a "girls" league. We are not sanctioned, but base our rules on USSSA. I cannot find anything allowing (or disallowing) co-ed in youth in USSSA. The Divisions are labeled as Boys or Girls though.

Anyone have any experience with a local league allowing boys?

If so what are the limitations (if any) placed either on the boy or the number of boys? (age, positions, etc.)

Would it be legal to disallow a boy on a girls team, Equal Rights and all that?

I know that he is only 8, but I would not put it past some of the winning-is-the-only-thing coaches around here to try something like this on purpose.

Thanks for your input.

There is no boy's softball around here only baseball and lots of it.

Around here, defensively there are some rec 8&U boys that handle that baseball better than most rec 12&U girls handle a softball - size of the player, while possibly intimidating is not the problem.

Been invovled with this rec league for over ten years, never had the issue of a boy playing come up - had some people whine about girls that looked like a boy though!

Are you suggesting that there is a difference between their whining and yours?

If a child wants to play baseball, let her play baseball. Your gender-based argument that she will HAVE to play softball when she's older makes no sense whatsoever, and the parents who've chosen to dismiss your antiquated opinion were right to do so, regardless of their reasons. You cannot possibly know what a girl aged 8 will be doing with HER life in 5-6 years from that point.

I'm going to stop there, though, because your agenda is clear, and I don't like it.

 

[amanda_cake]

Are you suggesting that there is a difference between their whining and yours?

If a child wants to play baseball, let her play baseball. Your gender-based argument that she will HAVE to play softball when she's older makes no sense whatsoever, and the parents who've chosen to dismiss your antiquated opinion were right to do so, regardless of their reasons. You cannot possibly know what a girl aged 8 will be doing with HER life in 5-6 years from that point.

I'm going to stop there, though, because your agenda is clear, and I don't like it.

One of the reasons I'd argue against a girl playing baseball is for social reasons, not to mention that they will be shoved into SB if they reach the HS. At 8, that is far off... but I do think that being with kids your own age and sex is important when growing up. However, you play what you have the option for.

I've never heard of a boy signing up for girls' softball... it probably wouldn't be allowed in the rec programs that I coached for.

 

[PA SB Dad]

I run our LL softball program, and we allow both girls and boys to register for either baseball or softball. I have only seen girls play baseball however, whereas no boys have ever played softball to my knowledge.

There is a freshman boy this year in our HS who played Varsity Girls Field Hockey. He learned boys field hockey growing up in Europe, and when he came here, could not find an equivalent boys team (and don't tell me ice hockey is equivalent!). I give him a lot of credit for wearing the kilt!

 

[Lozza]

Our under 12 competition is mixed. Until 11/12 there's not a noticable difference. I played against boys until U16s and it only was U16s where it really became a safety issue. (14s we whipped their butts, 16s they anhiliated us)

The only time I have an issue with it is if they have have too big an age gap. So out Under 12 comp is for anyone under 12. We have six year olds playing in our team. So six year old girls against 12 year old boys. Oh, and we tried for a boys competition for U14 and since we didn't get one, let's just let them play in under 12s. I was dead set against that. I do NOT agree with 13/14 year old boys playing against 6 year old girls. We've tried to get it split into two comps but they're resisting it.

 

[mikeh25]

Are you suggesting that there is a difference between their whining and yours?

If a child wants to play baseball, let her play baseball. Your gender-based argument that she will HAVE to play softball when she's older makes no sense whatsoever, and the parents who've chosen to dismiss your antiquated opinion were right to do so, regardless of their reasons. You cannot possibly know what a girl aged 8 will be doing with HER life in 5-6 years from that point.

I'm going to stop there, though, because your agenda is clear, and I don't like it.

Why is this even a discussion? Regardless of age, there should be no discrimination based upon gender.

You cannot waive around Title IX like the holy grail in one hand and push someone away because of their gender with the other.

SoftSocDad & MTR, you are reading way too much into this.

Who is whining? Agenda? Title IX? You are the ones that appear to have political agendas. My reasons for having a girl play with the girls is because 1) she would be EXCLUDED by the local baseball league after she turns 9 and 2) the parents have been acting out of convenience not because they are enlightened about gender issues. I do not have a need to have all women in the kitchen. After raising daughters and no sons, I am well aware of how girl's programs generally get the short end of things when it comes to sports.

Traditionally, there have been boy's sports and girl's sports. This country is a long way from gender-blindness, especially in the area of youth and school based sports. You would have to be an idiot to deny that. My question is not one of keeping a woman from getting Saturday morning tee times at your local county club, it is having a very unusual (for my area) situation come up in a rec league. There may be some leagues around the country that are co-ed through 18&U in diamond sports - great, I want to hear how it works.

Most people's initial reaction to this situation is that in a non-coed diamond sport league, most boys would not be caught dead playing because of alleged threats to their manhood/teasing in school. When it is a girl playing with boys it is usually deemed a novelty or "playing up".

So back to my question about a boy in a girl's softball league:

For all the gender does not matter folks: There was a thread on this site about the possibility of fielding an all-girl baseball team in a boy's league. What about an all-boy softball team in a girl's league? Where do you draw the line? In adult co-ed there are gender requirements in all aspects of the game; overall ratio, batting order, fielding positions and defense. How does this work for youth, especially if you could not achieve a 50-50 ratio?

If there has been a girl's league that denied a willing male participant I would want to know about that as well. My feeling is that most parents in this girl's league will not like having boys mixed in. This country is a representative democracy, but there are laws that prevent the majority from imposing its will on a minority. So if this has already been argued about in other areas I would like to know about how it came out.

Soccer seems to not have as many issues with this but there is no difference in the game, ball, or field dimensions for same age boys and girls. Additionally, soccer does not have to deal with the 'baseball is a boy's game and softball is a girl's game' notion. Maybe I should have drunk the Kool-Aid and gotten my daughters involved in soccer to avoid having to worry about gender-based youth sports issues.


A note to SoftSocDad, MTR and others: If all you want to do is comment with you perceptions of what you think is my "agenda", stay with SoftSocDad's plan and stay out of this thread. If you have something beyond trying make this thread simply about gender issues, play on.