Bat Plane - True or False

[julray]

You can draw a line from one point on a bill, through the center of the ball, and then out the other side of the ball, without reference to either the bat or the ground.

Yes but it is a relevant question, right? Without overcomplicating(friction, spin, wind, speed, force etc) the question.

1. Swing path = down and through the ball and clips the bottom 1/4th of the ball
2. Swing path = level swing(with the ground) which clips the bottom 1/4th of the ball
2. Swing path = down and up through the ball which clips the bottom 1/4th of the ball

All these hits come off the bat at the same angle relative to the plane the bat is being swung in.. however there are all at a much different angle relative to the ground.

As Per my illustration LOLOL

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Has anyone ever experienced a ball staying on the bat for that long after contact, or compressing that much?

It's not an isolated phenomenon, or type of ball necessarily. Here's an MLB baseball doing the same thing...


Gotta believe anecdotically that a softball would be even more compression-able.

 

[julray]

It's not an isolated phenomenon, or type of ball necessarily. Here's an MLB baseball doing the same thing...


Gotta believe anecdotically that a softball would be even more compression-able.

Makes me think of feedback. I am sure anybody who's ever swung a baseball bat has experienced the feeling of "getting it all", contact is so perfect between the ball and the sweet spot that it almost feels like you didn't make contact at all. I'd imagine on those occasions we see max ball compression and max bat flex.

 

[efastball]

 

[efastball]

If you want to hit below the center line, what gives you the highest odds of hitting the bottom half:
1. Swing from the top
2. Swing level to the ground
3. Swing path from underneath

In basketball, I could hit half court shots, but I have a higher shot percent with layups. Using a bath path that is rising toward the ball, is the equivalent of a layup.

 

[jamesd1628]

Yes but it is a relevant question, right? Without overcomplicating(friction, spin, wind, speed, force etc) the question.

1. Swing path = down and through the ball and clips the bottom 1/4th of the ball
2. Swing path = level swing(with the ground) which clips the bottom 1/4th of the ball
2. Swing path = down and up through the ball which clips the bottom 1/4th of the ball

All these hits come off the bat at the same angle relative to the plane the bat is being swung in.. however there are all at a much different angle relative to the ground.

As Per my illustration LOLOL
View attachment 23718

Okay I see what you're saying. Your example imagines hitting a different spot on the ball relative to the ground. Imagine hitting the same spot on the ball relative to the ground. As noted by someone earlier, pool provides a good example. Please forgive the "art" work, but the behavior of pool balls is informative. In the drawing below, the spot on the target ball that needs to be hit is relative to the pocket the shooter is trying to hit into. Regardless of the original location of the cue ball, or from which direction the cue ball travels, if the cue ball hits the spot on the target ball directly opposite the pocket, the target ball will go in the direction of the pocket [note some cue balls can't get to the spot].

In the baseball context, in order for the ball to travel at, say, a 15 degree angle relative to the ground, you simply need to locate the spot on the ball (again relative to the ground) that will produce that angle when a line is drawn from that spot through the center of the ball and out the other side. If the bat makes contact with that spot - regardless of which direction the bat is travelling - the ball will launch at 15 degrees. Again, forgive the "art" work:

As you noted, I am discussing only the mechanical behavior/geometry of two round objects hitting each other, and discounting friction, air, force, etc. For those who keep posting pics of a baseball compressed upon contact with a bat, you're missing the point.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Okay I see what you're saying. Your example imagines hitting a different spot on the ball relative to the ground. Imagine hitting the same spot on the ball relative to the ground. As noted by someone earlier, pool provides a good example. Please forgive the "art" work, but the behavior of pool balls is informative. In the drawing below, the spot on the target ball that needs to be hit is relative to the pocket the shooter is trying to hit into. Regardless of the original location of the cue ball, or from which direction the cue ball travels, if the cue ball hits the spot on the target ball directly opposite the pocket, the target ball will go in the direction of the pocket [note some cue balls can't get to the spot].

In the baseball context, in order for the ball to travel at, say, a 15 degree angle relative to the ground, you simply need to locate the spot on the ball (again relative to the ground) that will produce that angle when a line is drawn from that spot through the center of the ball and out the other side. If the bat makes contact with that spot - regardless of which direction the bat is travelling - the ball will launch at 15 degrees. Again, forgive the "art" work:

As you noted, I am discussing only the mechanical behavior/geometry of two round objects hitting each other, and discounting friction, air, force, etc. For those who keep posting pics of a baseball compressed upon contact with a bat, you're missing the point.

Cue balls are completely round, so yes, they're going to make contact on only one specific dot of a spot on each other when the collide.

A bat however has a round surface and a flat surface (specking circumference and length), and discounting everything but the facts that a bat, baseball, and softball are all "squishy" in comparison to a cue ball...the bat and ball are going to have a larger contact surface for these reasons, and they are going to be in contact with one another longer (thus traveling in space together however so briefly relatively speaking) than two cue balls contacting each other.

So when you say, "I am discussing only the mechanical behavior/geometry of two round objects hitting each other, and discounting friction, air, force, etc.", I don't believe that you can (or should) discount the physical properties of the objects making contact with one another.

And with that, I think feel that (all has been speculation with only video "evidence" nothing scientifically noted), that brief time in space of "ball on bat" following along the bat barrel's path will also determine ball travel once it leaves the bat, and not only where the two object of bat/ball contact each other as in the case of two solid completely "solid" objects will do.

 

[CoachYodaD]

Here is a simple rule of thumb. If the hitter gets "good bat" (sweet spot) on "good ball" (center mass), the ball will come off the bat at a 90 degree angle, perpendicular to the angle of the bat in relation to the swing plane. Take an initial example of a bunted ball.

There are so many different forces that play on how a ball exits contact from a bat that we can get lost in the science of it all. KISS. Ball is coming off the bat perpendicular to contact angle of the bat's barrel.

 

[jamesd1628]

Cue balls are completely round, so yes, they're going to make contact on only one specific dot of a spot on each other when the collide.

A bat however has a round surface and a flat surface (specking circumference and length), and discounting everything but the facts that a bat, baseball, and softball are all "squishy" in comparison to a cue ball...the bat and ball are going to have a larger contact surface for these reasons, and they are going to be in contact with one another longer (thus traveling in space together however so briefly relatively speaking) than two cue balls contacting each other.

So when you say, "I am discussing only the mechanical behavior/geometry of two round objects hitting each other, and discounting friction, air, force, etc.", I don't believe that you can (or should) discount the physical properties of the objects making contact with one another.

And with that, I think feel that (all has been speculation with only video "evidence" nothing scientifically noted), that brief time in space of "ball on bat" following along the bat barrel's path will also determine ball travel once it leaves the bat, and not only where the two object of bat/ball contact each other as in the case of two solid completely "solid" objects will do.

I agree with your conclusions. The fact is, pool balls are not completely round either. They merely get you closer to the ideal. Due to the infinite nature of what we call reality, a perfect sphere exists only in imagination. Nevertheless, understanding the underlying mechanical and geometrical behavior of ideal spheres colliding in ideal circumstances provides a foundation for understanding how one might wish to swing a bat to hit a ball to accomplish ideal results (though truly ideal results will never occur in reality).

So, a perfect sphere consists of a center point bisected in infinite three-dimensional directions by an infinite number equal-length lines. Applying a force to the end-point of any one of those lines will move the sphere, away from the force, in the direction of that line, regardless of the incoming direction of the force applied. Pool demonstrates that principal fairly clearly, and you seem to agree with that.

But, as you say, hitting a baseball with a bat introduces some forces that don't apply (or apply less) in the pool context. I agree, and I also agree that those forces, ultimately, need to be considered. In considering them, though, it should be recognized that those additional forces do not change the underlying mechanical and geometrical aspects of the collision; they merely add to those underlying - foundational - aspects.

So, for example, if you consider the foundational aspects of the underlying mechanics and geometry, supplemented by friction between the bat and ball, you might conclude that the best results can be obtained by hitting a certain fixed spot on the ball with the bat travelling in a certain direction when hitting that spot.

 

[_MIA_]

Why exactly are we doing this exercise in mental masturbation?