ASA Nationals - Experience (bunch of questions)

[MTR]

No they did not count pool play games for final results. The pool play games are really meaningless. Just an excuse to keep you in the city longer spending your money...

That isn't a very intelligent statement. The pool games were put into place because of the parents complaining about spending all that money for two and done.

 

[Coachmom]

That isn't a very intelligent statement

MTR..really? Well, it wouldn't be the first time, probably won't be the last. I guess I'll continue to strive to be a genius like you. you keep setting the example for us.

 The pool games were put into place because of the parents complaining about spending all that money for two and done.

The parents I hear complaining is about having to spend so much on a tournament that could be done in 4-5 days. Instead we have to be there for 9 days. Oh wait, maybe that was just me complaining.


But we have PGF here now and don't need to worry about that any longer.
Thanks for your thoughtful input.

 

[livingontheroad]

pool

I dont exactly how you are seeded, and it may vary , but pool does seed your position into bracket play. It might even be random draw, but it is predetermined, just not revealed to you.


A few years back they used to post the empty brackets with seeding from pool play ahead of time, but teams would intentionally lose pool games to get away from playing stronger teams , to give themselves a better starting position in the bracket. So now the brackets dont come out until pool play is complete and everyone is seeded.

 

[MTR]

That isn't a very intelligent statement

MTR..really? Well, it wouldn't be the first time, probably won't be the last. I guess I'll continue to strive to be a genius like you. you keep setting the example for us.

 The pool games were put into place because of the parents complaining about spending all that money for two and done.

The parents I hear complaining is about having to spend so much on a tournament that could be done in 4-5 days. Instead we have to be there for 9 days. Oh wait, maybe that was just me complaining.


But we have PGF here now and don't need to worry about that any longer.
Thanks for your thoughtful input.

You can believe what you want, I'm in the room every year when this is discussed. And if you have been frequenting these type of boards or mail lists for the past decade, you could not help but to notice these sentiments. What amazes me is the continuing contradictions. Complain that they are trying to keep you there longer, but then complain when the tournaments are tightly scheduled and there isn't time to do anything with the family. There are also the complaints that teams end up playing three or four games in the heat and then complain when tournaments games spread out to make it easy on the teams.

Seems to me that no matter what is done, there are always going to be complaints.

BTW, a few years ago, people complained so much about the time spent, they tried to go to a 3-game guarantee elimination format and the teams went crazy specifically because they were not getting at least four games. The ironic part is that those who didn't get four games were more often than not, teams that were playing above their head and probably did not belong in that tournament to begin.

Travel ball is ALL about getting X number of games and the non-consequential pool play pretty much shows that.

 

[livingontheroad]

pool

Even going 4 and out sucks.

 

[Susan]

Here was my first ASA Nationals experience for you. 1983 or 84??? 12U Nationals in Las Cruces, NM. 54 teams. I was 13 at the time and kept the scorebook. We had a great pitcher for our area. She was clearly the best pitcher in the NE (PA, NJ, NY, VA). We figured she had to be in the top 5 in the nation. Our team played a total of 25 games that year before going. I remember the coaches draw/luncheon. We were sitting with teams from California. They all knew each other and were saying how they played over 100 games a year. Yeah right, we thought. The draw came and we drew a team from Tn. We thought, alright an east coast team first round. We lost 7-0 and didn't get a hit. Hmm, not going like we planned. BTW, every team we watched had a pitcher as good as ours. Now we go to the losers bracket. Next two games we win, combining for 1 total hit. The difference was the other teams struggled with strikes and we were able to play small ball and get a few across the plate. Lost the 4th game, can't remember the score. We were out Friday morning. Total hits for 4 games was 2. At that moment, we realized what the difference between a travel team and a nationally competetive travel team really was. The best night there was Friday night. It had rained and there were games starting at midnight. Our girls have never even heard of such a thing. It was the round of 8 games being played in the winners bracket. We watched a team from California (Gamblers?) against a team from Arizona. Saw the best 12U play I have ever witnessed. Incredible. I know for a fact the girls on our team carry that experience with them today. Changed everything I thought I knew about softball and made our coaching staff (Mom and Dad) rethink our entire training program. We finished 27th that year. 3 years later, we finally broke the top 10, and were in the round of 8 games that everyone was watching. But that is another story.

Thank you for the post. I was on the 1983 Gambler team who won that year. We played a 3 a.m. game due to rain. There are a lot of behind the scenes stories to the making of that team, not all positive. My daughter is playing now. Thank you for another perspective on this tournament.

 

[CoachKevin]

pool

I dont exactly how you are seeded, and it may vary , but pool does seed your position into bracket play. It might even be random draw, but it is predetermined, just not revealed to you.


A few years back they used to post the empty brackets with seeding from pool play ahead of time, but teams would intentionally lose pool games to get away from playing stronger teams , to give themselves a better starting position in the bracket. So now the brackets dont come out until pool play is complete and everyone is seeded.

Hmmm in my experience the #1 Seeds in each pool play the #4 Seeds. Loosing pool games on purpose doesn't seem like a great idea. We just got done with Western Nationals and I will say I think USA solved the clock issue. The games were 120 minutes + 1 inning, meaning once the time limit is reached, then you play one more inning. I liked it.

 

[The Man In Blue]

That is the actual book rule for timed games. Very rare to ever actually see it though.

I’ve only encountered it once during a qualifier. It really screwed people up because they had never seen it. I started explaining it as “one new inning after the time limit expires” since people were used to hearing “no new inning after the time limit expires”. It didn’t seem to help.

Actually a really good (and simple) rule that I’d like to see more places actually use.

 

[Elk Grove Hurricane]

USA softball does it right, the pool games do mean something as it determines seeding for the double elimination part of the tournament. PGF, no so much. Playing two drop dead pool games that don't mean anything may get more kids to play, but everyone is smart enough to know that if a kid is only playing in the pool games, they aren't really playing true tournament ball. I guess it does stretch the week out and if it weren't a stay to play event I might buy that their doing it for the kids/families, but it wouldn't take much effort to make the pool games actually matter.