Around Instead of Down Release

[BoardMember]

After reading the replies, then going back and watching all of these videos i've never really noticed before but she consistently releases the ball at her front leg. By simply getting her to stop leaning forward and finishing straight or at an angle back should automatically change that release point to her back leg (assuming timing all stays the same).

Wow........Ok okie.......Don't take this personal.....I'm using you as an example.........

(climbs up on the soap box)

Why is it every time I tell someone that RELEASE POINT DRIVES POSTURE.........They MISS THE ENTIRE POINT..........And completely REVERSE what is being said...........

I'm going to say it YET AGAIN........RELEASE POINT DRIVES POSTURE.........NOT POSTURE DRIVES RELEASE POINT........

You cannot tell a kid who is bending at the waist to stand taller with a slight rearward lean and expect the release to naturally move back.......Because it won't......The timing of release will NOT change just because you stand up........If the mind believes release is OUT FRONT..........It won't matter if you stand her on her head........She'll still throw it out front..........

You MUST get her to throw the ball of the rear hip/leg........THAT WILL DRIVE HER POSTURE to a more upright position........OR SHE'LL THROW IT INTO THE GROUND..........

I can't tell you how many times I've been a "guest coach" at the pitching lesson and the PC says: "she's pretty good but we're working on a more upright posture"..........Only to hear him tell her to "STAND UP"........"LEAN BACK".........With ZERO RESULTS.......Because he's COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT of WHY she bends forward at the waist.........

We take 10-15 minutes to work on her release point from drill positions.........Then we let her progress in drill form to full circles........From 9:00......To 12:00.....To 3/4.......To full circles.........ALWAYS THROWING OFF THE BACK HIP.........

After 2 or 3 balls from every position in the dirt and she QUICKLY figures out that in order to throw off the back hip, she MUST have a slight rearward lean to get the ball to the plate........From there the LIGHT COMES ON.......and we're done worrying about posture.......

If she starts to bend........The PC simply explains that her release point is moving forward, and tells her to GET IT BACK WHERE IT BELONGS..........

Stepping off the soap box now.......

Thank you okie.........

 

[Ken B]

You cannot tell a kid who is bending at the waist to stand taller with a slight rearward lean and expect the release to naturally move back........

I tend to do this now and then and appreciate the cue to look at this with a different focus.

 

[okie]

Wow........Ok okie.......Don't take this personal.....I'm using you as an example.........

(climbs up on the soap box)

Why is it every time I tell someone that RELEASE POINT DRIVES POSTURE.........They MISS THE ENTIRE POINT..........And completely REVERSE what is being said...........

I'm going to say it YET AGAIN........RELEASE POINT DRIVES POSTURE.........NOT POSTURE DRIVES RELEASE POINT........

You cannot tell a kid who is bending at the waist to stand taller with a slight rearward lean and expect the release to naturally move back.......Because it won't......The timing of release will NOT change just because you stand up........If the mind believes release is OUT FRONT..........It won't matter if you stand her on her head........She'll still throw it out front..........

You MUST get her to throw the ball of the rear hip/leg........THAT WILL DRIVE HER POSTURE to a more upright position........OR SHE'LL THROW IT INTO THE GROUND..........

I can't tell you how many times I've been a "guest coach" at the pitching lesson and the PC says: "she's pretty good but we're working on a more upright posture"..........Only to hear him tell her to "STAND UP"........"LEAN BACK".........With ZERO RESULTS.......Because he's COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT of WHY she bends forward at the waist.........

We take 10-15 minutes to work on her release point from drill positions.........Then we let her progress in drill form to full circles........From 9:00......To 12:00.....To 3/4.......To full circles.........ALWAYS THROWING OFF THE BACK HIP.........

After 2 or 3 balls from every position in the dirt and she QUICKLY figures out that in order to throw off the back hip, she MUST have a slight rearward lean to get the ball to the plate........From there the LIGHT COMES ON.......and we're done worrying about posture.......

If she starts to bend........The PC simply explains that her release point is moving forward, and tells her to GET IT BACK WHERE IT BELONGS..........

Stepping off the soap box now.......

Thank you okie.........

To answer your rhetorical question, lol, common sense to an untrained mind. For example, take that photograph of my dauter frozen at the release point (on front leg, bent at the waste), now straighten her shoulders or posture up and automatically the arm comes with it. Now with a slight lean back or straighter posture, the arm is now directly in line with the back leg at the snap of the wrist. Now, to the uneducated bucketdad, you have fixed the release by fixing the posture. What you are saying is that essentially even if we straightened her posture, she would have held onto the ball longer anyways, still releasing on her front leg, most likely.

Chicken or the egg?

Now, as you are much, much more experienced and knowledgeable than i am at this im going to take what you say as fact and disregard my original line of thought. Not just because you said it but because what you said actually makes 100% sense with what im seeing. We talk about posture alot, especially her PC and we've had many balls fly over the garage (we have one broken windshield now on the other side of the house), most of those balls were when she actually finished chest out or with "better posture". Your comment absolutely applies here because the high trajectory would indicate that she released on her front leg regardless of the posture. Her bending over seems to be an attempt to stay on top of the ball and keep it down to offset her release point.

That is backwards of the way i had thought about it and worked on it so i really appreciate the post and insight. Sounds like its time to go back to the bat drill.

 

[okie]

On another note and to the original topic of this thread i think i have diagnosed the problem with her discomfort and coming around her body, actually pretty simple when i stepped away and then went back and watched it. My DD is snapping her hips closed too soon and the natural rotation of the arm is now coming across the body 45 to 90 degrees left of home. When she stays open, coming across the body is natural, when shes closed, its a forced motion. Amazing how a problem becomes so clear when you step away from it for a day or two.

Now the question becomes what to do with the hips. I've read so, so many discussions and seen so many different videos about the role the hips play in the motion. Regardless of HE or IR, there seems to be varying opinions on them. If you watch many of these elite pitchers, it actually looks like many of them dont close their hips at all. Thoughts?

 

[MandM]

read drive mechanics

 

[okie]

read drive mechanics

I have and thank you. The problem with that thread is that it is difficult to follow and stay focused because theres almost too much technical, non applicable information in it that it drowns out the useful, for lack of a better term "dumbed down" information most bucketdads are looking for. As a matter of fact, i think the same hip or no hip debate went on in there too.

Ill go back and read it again though, thanks.

 

[Jojo]

Great point. I have often wondered the same thing about hitting and bunting. You would think that kids would first develop hand eye coordination by learning to bunt then progress to a full swing. But we teach the full swing then about 5 years later we just expect them to be able to bunt.

Always a pet peeve of mine, and always taught bunting first. Whenever my young teams faced a pitcher to fast to hit, then bunting was the answer. We beat so many unbeatable teams this way and I never figured out why I was the weird one that taught backwards?

 

[Jojo]

I tend to do this now and then and appreciate the cue to look at this with a different focus.

This is what I do with mine. I tell them when they start staying back, they will throw high. IT'S OKAY TO THROW HIGH. As the mechanics set in and the weight starts staying back then we work the release back down, it usually doesn't take that long. Don't fight one thing while working on another.

 

[Ken B]

Don't fight one thing while working on another.

Good point. I like to start out with a net or backstop when addressing major changes--takes the focus of control out of the sitch until they can put things together.

 

[Rocketech1]

Great point. I have often wondered the same thing about hitting and bunting. You would think that kids would first develop hand eye coordination by learning to bunt then progress to a full swing. But we teach the full swing then about 5 years later we just expect them to be able to bunt.

Because most players play Tee ball and coach pitch the first few years and it's against the rules to bunt. Once players face kid pitch, we start teaching bunting and practice it every time we do hitting stations. By 10u these players are very good bunters. At least that is my experience.