Appealing judgement calls

[Mr T]

Thanks. So MTR there is nothing wrong with calling time and asking the calling ump to ask for help, is that right? Don't know in this situation if I would even do it as I would probably expect a well-deserved rebuff from the base ump.

Didn't need to let it go. I don't think this call mattered much in the game. One of the dads in the stands blew his stack though when the ump changed his call.

 

[MTR]

Thanks. So MTR there is nothing wrong with calling time and asking the calling ump to ask for help, is that right? Don't know in this situation if I would even do it as I would probably expect a well-deserved rebuff from the base ump.

Didn't need to let it go. I don't think this call mattered much in the game. One of the dads in the stands blew his stack though when the ump changed his call.

There is nothing wrong in requesting time to discuss a play/call, but if you are going to ask me to go for help, you better have a specific question or observation of what you believe was missed (pulled foot, dropped ball, etc.), or that conversation will be short and we will move on with the game.

 

[Ken Krause]

I think a lot of this is the result of instant replay, where every call is analyzed to death. Coaches have nothing to lose so they figure they might as well give it a try. Especially if they're on the clock and are ahead.

 

[Mr T]

Which is why as the "other" umpire I would never overrule my partner unless I was 1000% sure. Usually its a first base pulled foot that is really obvious from home plate vantage point but in general just huddle up and make the coach happy and stick with your call and never dispute your partners call without huddling up and talking things through even if you are 90+% sure your want to overrule him you just stick with the call.

So if base ump signals safe, but home plate sees pulled foot, will home plate wait for appeal, make a call, or go talk to base ump? Sound like he would not make a call outright based on comments from umps in this thread.

 

[Momo'sDad]

So if base ump signals safe, but home plate sees pulled foot, will home plate wait for appeal, make a call, or go talk to base ump? Sound like he would not make a call outright based on comments from umps in this thread.

It's not his call to make. Umpires are trained to do specific jobs on plays based on the game situation. In a 2-umpire system, with no one on, base ump has the call at 1B. When umps leave their assignments, calls are missed. Coaches and players and certainly parents don't like it when calls are missed because an umpire was out of position.

 

[eddieq]

So if base ump signals safe, but home plate sees pulled foot, will home plate wait for appeal, make a call, or go talk to base ump? Sound like he would not make a call outright based on comments from umps in this thread.

That's simple. He keeps his mouth shut unless specifically asked by the base ump and then he should only answer the questions asked, not provide opinions on safe vs. out.

 

[CoachKevin]

So if base ump signals safe, but home plate sees pulled foot, will home plate wait for appeal, make a call, or go talk to base ump? Sound like he would not make a call outright based on comments from umps in this thread.

Um a pulled foot would be safe... the base ump made the correct call in your case.

 

[Mr T]

Um a pulled foot would be safe... the base ump made the correct call in your case.

No in the case I saw the base ump made a call from 8' feet away, then after meeting with home up BR was declared out, by the home plate ump, if that matters.

 

[marriard]

So if base ump signals safe, but home plate sees pulled foot, will home plate wait for appeal, make a call, or go talk to base ump? Sound like he would not make a call outright based on comments from umps in this thread.

That is correct - it is not my assignment nor is it my call to make - I have other places I am meant to be looking ata lot of cases and I am likely not in the best position. I may not see what REALLY happened on the play because I likely don't have the best view or be in the optimal position to do so. This is why the 'other ump' often isn't able to assist what the crowd sees an easy call to overrule - their duties on the call meant they were (correctly) looking at something other than the play being made (player rounding bases, getting into position for the next continuation of the play, etc). You don't 'overrule' (technically 'assist') your partner without him requesting your input (which is why you are told to go to the umpire who made the call first) - and the coach doesn't necessarily need to come out - my partner can request my help any time he likes if he feels he needs something clarified or even if he is in the best position and he got blocked.

If it is grossly wrong then I might do something, but if it is grossly wrong, then it is likely a situation where the coach is going to come out and I am going to be asked for my input anyway.

 

[PlayPerfect]

I think the best way to ask an umpire to request help of their partner or partners is to call time, ask the plate umpire for permission to speak with field ump and then approach them and quietly ask them to request help of the PU or another field ump only if they had a clearly better angle than the umpire who made the call. Showing up an official with barking and whining will typically lead the crew to dig their heels in and not be amenable to changing the call. Be quiet, be polite, be discrete and only do if it someone else had a better angle.