Appealing judgement calls

[Ajaywill]

I think the best way to ask an umpire to request help of their partner or partners is to call time, ask the plate umpire for permission to speak with field ump and then approach them and quietly ask them to request help of the PU or another field ump only if they had a clearly better angle than the umpire who made the call. Showing up an official with barking and whining will typically lead the crew to dig their heels in and not be amenable to changing the call. Be quiet, be polite, be discrete and only do if it someone else had a better angle.

First of all, it is not necessary to ask the PU for permission to speak to the BU. Just call for time, wait until it is granted and go talk to the BU if that umpire made the call.

Let me add that if the only reason you are going to speak to the umpire is to ask him if his partner "had a better angle", don't bother. As was mentioned before, if you have a specific question on something you believed the umpire may not have seen (pulled foot, bobbled ball, swipe tag, etc.), by all means go and ask the umpire to check with his partner on that specific question.

Going onto the field only to question the judgement on the call should result in the coach being asked to return to the dugout.

 

[Il softball fan]

Different scenario, but the replies above of umps "keeping their mouth shut",...what about on a missed base by a runner, or missed home plate by runner. My understanding is that Blue says nothing unless asked by a coach. Correct?

 

[ORBlue]

that is an appeal.....not the same situation as in the OP

 

[MTR]

that is an appeal.....not the same situation as in the OP

And in ASA, it must be made by an infielder, pitcher or catcher.

 

[CoachKevin]

So if base ump signals safe, but home plate sees pulled foot, will home plate wait for appeal, make a call, or go talk to base ump? Sound like he would not make a call outright based on comments from umps in this thread.

I am totally lost.... You said base ump called her safe, but the Plate ump sees a "Pulled Foot".... That would be SAFE!!!! Later you said she was called out?? If the Base ump called her safe, and the Plate ump saw a pulled foot, what argument could be made to change the call?

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I am totally lost.... You said base ump called her safe, but the Plate ump sees a "Pulled Foot".... That would be SAFE!!!! Later you said she was called out?? If the Base ump called her safe, and the Plate ump saw a pulled foot, what argument could be made to change the call?

Mr T introduced a hypothetical case in response to DJCarter's post (see below), not to be confused with his OP.

Which is why as the "other" umpire I would never overrule my partner unless I was 1000% sure. Usually its a first base pulled foot that is really obvious from home plate vantage point but in general just huddle up and make the coach happy and stick with your call and never dispute your partners call without huddling up and talking things through even if you are 90+% sure your want to overrule him you just stick with the call.

 

[CoachKevin]

Mr T introduced a hypothetical case in response to DJCarter's post (see below), not to be confused with his OP.

Even with a hypothetical case, both umpires call her safe... Now if the base ump called her OUT, but the plate umpire saw a pulled foot.... maybe a different story. Maybe that is what Mr T meant to put down.. but he didn't.

 

[Mr T]

Yeah sorry to confuse. I asked some hypotheticals later, but the play that happened:

1 out, no one on. Blooping spinner hit in front of second baseman, fast runner, appears to beat it out. Call is safe.

Coach asks for time and approaches base ump. Base ump goes to home plate ump. Confer, base ump walks away signaling safe again. Then home plate says something, they confer again, base ump walks out of conference signaling out.

I think the mechanics of how this was handled, on all sides, was good. Was just curious:

(1) what did coach ask for? why did base ump even bother to talk to home, since he was in perfect position to make the call

(2) ultimately it seems home plate decided to change the judgement call on what appears on camera to be a clear safe, or let's say at the very least a super close call. When I am umping home I personally wouldn't feel I have the view to make that change, so was a little surprised.

 

[CoachKevin]

Yeah sorry to confuse. I asked some hypotheticals later, but the play that happened:

1 out, no one on. Blooping spinner hit in front of second baseman, fast runner, appears to beat it out. Call is safe.

Coach asks for time and approaches base ump. Base ump goes to home plate ump. Confer, base ump walks away signaling safe again. Then home plate says something, they confer again, base ump walks out of conference signaling out.

I think the mechanics of how this was handled, on all sides, was good. Was just curious:

(1) what did coach ask for? why did base ump even bother to talk to home, since he was in perfect position to make the call

(2) ultimately it seems home plate decided to change the judgement call on what appears on camera to be a clear safe, or let's say at the very least a super close call. When I am umping home I personally wouldn't feel I have the view to make that change, so was a little surprised.

No problem, In your play did the Umpire give a reason to change his call? Was it a lefty slapper? Maybe she was "safe" by beating the throw, but was "Out" because she was outside of the box? Did the Offensive Coach confer with the Base Ump after changing the call?

 

[Mr T]

No problem, In your play did the Umpire give a reason to change his call? Was it a lefty slapper? Maybe she was "safe" by beating the throw, but was "Out" because she was outside of the box? Did the Offensive Coach confer with the Base Ump after changing the call?

Batter was right handed. Ump did not give "public" explanation. Offensive coach did go out. Heard from him later base ump said his view was "blocked". That's an absurd excuse. But in the end I think he was just unsure, and got help. I'm fine with the whole thing, I certainly don't think they botched this or did anything wrong, more just curious about the typical workings of a play like this. Would guess generally coach would just be asked to go back to dugout. But if he was really that unsure then maybe props to him for trying to get it right.