a new thread about "the bow"

[Dave D]

I've been interestedly reading on several recent threads about "the bow." After posting some footage of DD a couple of weeks ago, several of you remarked on her bow as part of her pre-motion and delivery as a definite negative. DD and I read what was said, and have been watching many of the clips already on this forum, and have worked to eliminate much of it in the past couple of weeks, with good results.

So here's the question--over the last 24 hours Five Frame Swing has been building a thread here with pitching videos much like the one on the hitting forum, and I can't help noticing how many of these elite pitchers bow as part of their delivery. Are all of these ladies making serious mechanical mistakes, or is it not such a big deal?

I'm sure no one will argue that the bow is not a positive, but I wanted to get a feel for how much of a negative it really is.

I think this model pitching thread will give us all some new stuff to discuss and argue about--along with some perspective about how a number of different styles work for different pitchers. While I agree that someone like Sarah Pauly may be the ideal model, my kid is 5'6", and not shaped at all like Osterman, Finch and Pauly.

What do y'all think?

 

[starsnuffer]

Those pitchers bowing is exactly why your daughter probably did it. They saw other people do it without ever having it explained "why" they do it.

Look, kids are not stupid. If a coach cannot explain exactly why a particular mechanic works the way it does, then that coach does not know what they are doing and should not be allowed to teach kids. Explain to a kid "why" something needs to be done and what the goal is, and chances are they will perform the correct mechanic. Keep kids in the dark and tell them to "just do it", and they'll do all kinds of stupid things.

-W

 

[halskinner]

I've been interestedly reading on several recent threads about "the bow." After posting some footage of DD a couple of weeks ago, several of you remarked on her bow as part of her pre-motion and delivery as a definite negative. DD and I read what was said, and have been watching many of the clips already on this forum, and have worked to eliminate much of it in the past couple of weeks, with good results.

So here's the question--over the last 24 hours Five Frame Swing has been building a thread here with pitching videos much like the one on the hitting forum, and I can't help noticing how many of these elite pitchers bow as part of their delivery. Are all of these ladies making serious mechanical mistakes, or is it not such a big deal?

I'm sure no one will argue that the bow is not a positive, but I wanted to get a feel for how much of a negative it really is.

I think this model pitching thread will give us all some new stuff to discuss and argue about--along with some perspective about how a number of different styles work for different pitchers. While I agree that someone like Sarah Pauly may be the ideal model, my kid is 5'6", and not shaped at all like Osterman, Finch and Pauly.

What do y'all think?

I think you will find it might vary on the individual and their strength, especially in their lower back, sacrum spine.

Overall, it's not worth the risk. If you are looking for justification to risk her back health, you wont get it from me.

sneakysoftballpitching.com

 

[Dave D]

Wow. I sure didn't think anyone would think I'm trying to justify DD's continuation of bowing as part of her motion--as I mentioned, we've been working to get her to stop doing it, with good results. I was more interested in hearing what people think about the evidence that so many high level pitchers seem to incorporate it as part of their motions. Whatever, though.

 

[Jojo]

Wow. I sure didn't think anyone would think I'm trying to justify DD's continuation of bowing as part of her motion--as I mentioned, we've been working to get her to stop doing it, with good results. I was more interested in hearing what people think about the evidence that so many high level pitchers seem to incorporate it as part of their motions. Whatever, though.

I'm sure with the older pitchers they use it because they get a sense that it helps them acquire more speed.
I know when my own DD was in her early teens, the bow was becoming popular.

I think nowadays we look more into into the long term health of the pitcher than we did back then.

 

[Lozza]

In the older style of women's fastpitch windmill, we did not bow or even have that extra backswing behind the leg. The men still don't.

The backswing was a discussion I was having with my club's A grade pitcher yesterday. We have a very simillar motion (both of us raise our hands and pitching glove above our heads before commencing the arm circle) She throws her arm back before going up and she suggested I try it too. It *felt* like I was throwing harder and comments from my team confirmed this (and this was after pitching two games before I tried this) I still don't understand how it makes the ball faster, but if it works then it always helps. Even if it's purely a placebo effect.

The bowing though, I've never seen girls throw harder when introducing it.

 

[starsnuffer]

The stride is harder and more powerful if the pitcher learns how to use gravity. The stride should begin by the pitcher "falling" forward towards the catcher and initiating their actually leg drive/push off as late as they can during the "fall" while still maintaining control. I think the whole "bowing" thing came from pitchers trying to do this without actually "falling" or utilizing gravity, to try to trick themselves into thinking they were accomplishing the same thing and adding strength to their start.

As you know, if you bow forward and put your arms back behind you as a counterweight, nothing is accomplished from a mechanical standpoint but energy is exerted and weak areas (lower back) are taxed in the process.

-W