A/elite level pitcher

[JAD]

So obviously Jake did very well in college with her riseball and this coach was an idiot, but is there any bias in general against riseball pitchers? Is there anything at all to the idea that college coaches prefer those who throw a drop ball?

When coaches say things like this, I wonder where the heck they get it. Did he maybe talk to one coach one time to had a preference for drop ball pitchers so he just ran with it? I'm so confused when coaches say this kind of stuff.

Throwing an effective riseball is more difficult than throwing an effective drop ball, and a poorly throw riseball usually ends up in the parking lot while poorly thrown drop ball usually give your defense a chance to make a play.

 

[marriard]

When coaches say things like this, I wonder where the heck they get it. Did he maybe talk to one coach one time to had a preference for drop ball pitchers so he just ran with it? I'm so confused when coaches say this kind of stuff.

For the most part, people mistake 'college coach' with 'good coach' or 'great coach'. Just like at every other level there is good, bad and average. There are terrible college coaches that get by having great talent that often disguises their shortcomings and great coaches who don't have the horses to beat the more talented teams. There are also great coaches fielding great teams and horrible coaches fielding horrible teams. Just because you coach at the college level doesn't necessarily mean you are actually good or bad at coaching.

And there is even some coaches who know what they are doing who have a preference for certain types of players that fit who they are and how they like to coach. Some love a drop ball pitcher... some love a riseball. Some don't care as long as they can get it done.

And some people just like to repeat what they hear with no thought about what is being said or taking time to look for any understanding. For example - our org got 6 seniors on our top team on average about 50% scholarships last season - 3 at mid-level D1 teams. Yet you have people screaming there is no money left for 8th graders.



Elite pitcher: IMHO, a pitcher who will win about 75% of her games if her team scores 3-4 runs at the highest level the team is looking to play. I personally don't care how they get it done, as long as it gets done.

 

[WHEREAMI]

Throwing an effective riseball is more difficult than throwing an effective drop ball, and a poorly throw riseball usually end up in the parking lot while poorly thrown drop ball usually give your defense a chance to make a play.

I think a lower pitch ball(miss drop) is easier to hit, than a chin high riseball. Now if the riseball doesn't rise out of the zone, then it wasn't a riseball to begin with.

 

[Ken Krause]

A drop ball is considered a "safe" pitch by many coaches. If it doesn't drop it's still a low strike. As opposed to a rise that doesn't rise and sits in most hitters' happy zones.

Also, a drop ball that hits the dirt early can be blocked if you have a well-trained catcher. (If not, it's a disaster waiting to happen.) A rise that takes off will sail over everyone's heads if the catcher can't reach it. Again, disaster, and not preventable. So coaches who want to play it "safe" will tend to favor the low zone.

But then this gets back to having command of the pitch, doesn't it? A rise that you can make do what you want it to do, especially if you're throwing other pitches low, is usually pretty effective in getting hitters out, either on Ks or pop outs. Much harder to adjust going up that it is going down and still get a good contact with the ball.

 

[BobInMadison]

Yes, there is a bias against rise ball pitchers.

Comparing my experience with riseball or Ken K is like comparing a small pond to one of the Great Lakes, but I'll tell you what I have noticed.

From looking at this forum over the years, I have seen the really good riseball pitchers, like Jake and like Rubber Biscuit's DD, haven't gotten the love they would've gotten had they had the same results but with a drop ball.

The year Rubber Biscuit's DD graduated from HS, there were 3 top pitchers in the state, and all 3 girls were friends. One lived a few miles away from me, and didn't really develop into a great pitcher until her junior year. She got a scholly from a lesser D-I. Another was Rubber Biscuit's DD, and her trials and tribulations (such as college coaches trying to turn her into a drop ball pitcher) were well documented here. The third was the best pitcher of the lot, now a senior at Drake, and when she is in Madison she works with the organization my DD 3 plays for. This third pitcher works with my DD 3 sometimes, as well as all the other pitchers in the organization. This young lady is bigger than I am, and I am a little over 6' tall. She was burning up the circle with her rise ball as a HS freshman, and only got better. But she wound up with a lesser D-I program, instead of one of the P-5 conferences. I gather she was the best pitcher in her conference as a freshman in college.

 

[WHEREAMI]

Let's be honest, a great hitter is going to make you pay, if you miss in the zone. As a lefty, a low ball was what I wanted. My eyes got HUUUGE. And my slappers love down balls as well. Usually we make contact before it gets to far out of the zone anyways. Now a riseball on a slapper, hitter has to be coached, nothing up. I think its easier to see the spin on a drop as well. Rise balls are harder to read. IMO They're easier to catch (if not up to the backstop), and make it easier to throw someone out. And as a coach, I love playing drop ball pitchers that miss in the dirt. lol

 

[grcsftbll]

Let's be honest, a great hitter is going to make you pay, if you miss in the zone. As a lefty, a low ball was what I wanted. My eyes got HUUUGE. And my slappers love down balls as well. Usually we make contact before it gets to far out of the zone anyways. Now a riseball on a slapper, hitter has to be coached, nothing up. I think its easier to see the spin on a drop as well. Rise balls are harder to read. IMO They're easier to catch (if not up to the backstop), and make it easier to throw someone out. And as a coach, I love playing drop ball pitchers that miss in the dirt. lol

DD is a right handed power hitter and she loves a low pitch. I've seen her get a triple from digging one out of the dirt. Like speed golfing or something. That was crazy. But in general right at the knees or even a little lower and that's her jam.

 

[spleen1015]

I would trust what riseball says, but for me, I have no freaking clue. My DD has just started the whole recruiting process and I am learning how all of this works. I know of a pitcher with great command & movement not getting much love from D1 schools, but a pitcher that throws 62+ with no command is getting lots of love. The first strikes out 8-10 every game while the second might do that while walking 1 or 2 every inning and she gets hit a lot more than the 1st. It baffles me.

 

[JAD]

I think a lower pitch ball(miss drop) is easier to hit, than a chin high riseball. Now if the riseball doesn't rise out of the zone, then it wasn't a riseball to begin with.

A dropball has gravity working for it while a riseball has gravity working against it. A missed spot with a drop ball may be easier to put in play, but it is harder to drive it out of the park, therefore the defense has a chance to make a play. A lot of poorly thrown riseballs end up in the parking lot and there is nothing your defense can do to help...

 

[Sparky Guy]

I would trust what riseball says, but for me, I have no freaking clue. My DD has just started the whole recruiting process and I am learning how all of this works. I know of a pitcher with great command & movement not getting much love from D1 schools, but a pitcher that throws 62+ with no command is getting lots of love. The first strikes out 8-10 every game while the second might do that while walking 1 or 2 every inning and she gets hit a lot more than the 1st. It baffles me.

Most of the HC's in college were never pitchers. So when they see 62+ their eyes get big and think this kid is has to be good. We can teach her. The other thing, speed is measurable with a radar gun and up until the introduction of the RevFire, spin speed was not. It takes time to understand how effective a pitcher with great movement is. You need to see them work against multiple teams and hitters. It takes time to really appreciate how many routine grounders and flyballs they induce from hitters.