A couple of rules questions

[Coach×John]

I have a couple of questions about a game we had this weekend.

The first one: we had a girl get caught off 3rd base and was in a pickle. She is quick so the defense had their hands full. The catcher has the ball and causes the runner to change direction. The runner goes back towards 3rd base and runs directly into the 3rd baseman. She is then tagged by the catcher. The 3rd base coach tell her to continue and touch home plate. The umpire calls her out.
When asked for an explanation, the umpire said the 3rd baseman was not in the baseline.

2nd question: during a game with a time limit, should time be stopped when you summon the tournament director for a rule clarification? There were no protests allowed at this tournament as that is the route we would have taken.

Thanks

 

[The Man In Blue]

Part 1: As described, unquestionably obstruction. How can the runner run into the fielder “out of the base path (line)” when the base path is the runner’s path directly to the base?
As described, multiple errors now occur on both the umpire and your coach.

First, the umpire missed the obstruction call. Should that call have been made, the play continues until the runner reaches base safely or is tagged out. If tagged out it is an immediate dead ball ...

... which would have prevented your coach’s mistake of telling the runner to keep going. Had the umpire called obstruction it protects the runner from being called out, it does automatically not award her any bases. I have had coaches get greedy on obstructions and end up with outs because they sent the runner further than what I would have awarded.

Part 2: That is all dependent on your tournament rules. For USA Softball by the book, that is not protest that would be valid. It wasn’t that the umpire misinterpreted a playing rule, it was his judgment that F5 was not in the base path.

If it were an actual misinterpretation of a rule, you would notify the plate umpire that the game is now under protest. At that point the umpires would confer with the official scorekeeper to notate all conditions of the game at that moment (e.g., runners on base, count, outs, score) and notify the opposing manager. Then you play on. Tournaments handle things different as a means to keep things moving.

 

[marriard]

The first one: we had a girl get caught off 3rd base and was in a pickle. She is quick so the defense had their hands full. The catcher has the ball and causes the runner to change direction. The runner goes back towards 3rd base and runs directly into the 3rd baseman. She is then tagged by the catcher. The 3rd base coach tell her to continue and touch home plate. The umpire calls her out.
When asked for an explanation, the umpire said the 3rd baseman was not in the baseline.

If it happened as you described it sounds like clear obstruction and probably the runner is placed on third. The umpires explanation is in the 'making stuff up' rule book. It is a garbage explanation. Whatever really happened, this is total BS.

2nd question: during a game with a time limit, should time be stopped when you summon the tournament director for a rule clarification? There were no protests allowed at this tournament as that is the route we would have taken.

If there are no protests allowed, then that means there is also no rules clarification outside the field. The umpires make final decisions and you move on. That is what 'no protests' means.

You don't summon a tournament director to solve something - that is what you do if there is a protest. So no, the clock isn't stopping.
I have ONLY seen the 'no protest' rule in showcases. I wouldn't play an actual competitive tournament under such a 'no protest' rule - and neither should you.

 

[Coach×John]

Thanks for the quick response.

Just to clarify part 2 was on a completely different play. The batter was trying to bunt the ball and was hit with the pitch. The umpire awarded her 1st base. The batter never pulled the bat back

 

[ang2bmd]

So here's a rules question then. ASA sanction. 12u A. Runner on 1st and 2nd. Single up the middle no play for either of the middles. SS plows the runner coming toward third. She's just over half way there when she's plowed. Base umpire calls obstruction. Runner scrambles to third and ball is back in the infield so she stops. Umpire awards her home. Keeps other runner on 2nd and batter at first. Other coach comes out and argues that she's only protected to third because she stopped at third. Our coach argues umpire can give her whatever base he feels she would have obtained which was clearly home...runner has above average speed and was going full out when she was upended. Umpires talk and decide they can only award her 3rd. What's the call?

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[marriard]

So here's a rules question then. ASA sanction. 12u A. Runner on 1st and 2nd. Single up the middle no play for either of the middles. SS plows the runner coming toward third. She's just over half way there when she's plowed. Base umpire calls obstruction. Runner scrambles to third and ball is back in the infield so she stops. Umpire awards her home. Keeps other runner on 2nd and batter at first. Other coach comes out and argues that she's only protected to third because she stopped at third. Our coach argues umpire can give her whatever base he feels she would have obtained which was clearly home...runner has above average speed and was going full out when she was upended. Umpires talk and decide they can only award her 3rd. What's the call?

With obstruction the runners are protected between the two bases where obstruction occurred.
The AWARD is whatever base the umpire JUDGES they would have reached safely if there wasn't an obstruction (which includes putting them back on their original base).

Perfect example.... Batter hits a line drive to the deep RF.. they round 1st and collide with the 2B which the umpire decides is obstruction (delayed dead ball).
In this case the runner is protected between 1st and 2nd. At the end of the play, the umpire can decide she would have reached 2B, 3B or even home and place her on that base... Or he could even decide if she had continued to 2B she would have been out and put her back on 1st. Other runners were not obstructred, so they should be left where they end up (unless forced to the next base by the obstructed runner award)

 

[The Man In Blue]

Thanks for the quick response.

Just to clarify part 2 was on a completely different play. The batter was trying to bunt the ball and was hit with the pitch. The umpire awarded her 1st base. The batter never pulled the bat back

Possibly still not a play that could be protested. And you may be wrong also ...

You haven’t specified the rule set, so I am just quoting what I am familiar with. In USA Softball, the batter can have the bat out over home plate and it is not a bunt attempt unless she makes an actual motion at the ball. (Quite possibly the stupidest rule in the book, IMO.) “Pulling the bat back” is not a requirement.

Let’s forgo that for your example though ... If the umpire said “The rule says anytime a ball hits a batter she gets her base” then you could possibly protest under a misapplied rule.

If the umpire said “In my judgment, she did not make a bunt attempt or swing which would nullify the hit by pitch” then you have no recourse because it is an umpire’s judgment call as to whether she tried to bunt or not.

 

[The Man In Blue]

With obstruction the runners are protected between the two bases where obstruction occurred.
The AWARD is whatever base the umpire JUDGES they would have reached safely if there wasn't an obstruction (which includes putting them back on their original base).

Perfect example.... Batter hits a line drive to the deep RF.. they round 1st and collide with the 2B which the umpire decides is obstruction (delayed dead ball).
In this case the runner is protected between 1st and 2nd. At the end of the play, the umpire can decide she would have reached 2B, 3B or even home and place her on that base... Or he could even decide if she had continued to 2B she would have been out and put her back on 1st. Other runners were not obstructred, so they should be left where they were (unless forced to the next base by the obstructed runner award)

Or my favorite ... obstruction occurs between first and second base. Umpire calls it, runner continues around second ... and the third base coach, knowing there was an obstruction, sends her home where gets thrown out 15 feet from home plate where she is ... out. That’s it, just out.

 

[ang2bmd]

Thank you....I appreciate it. It didn't make sense to me because in this case it benefited the defense to obstruct her since she would have scored easily without the obstruction but I understand that rules don't always make sense.

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[Momo'sDad]

Had the umpire called obstruction it protects the runner from being called out, it does automatically not award her any bases. I have had coaches get greedy on obstructions and end up with outs because they sent the runner further than what I would have awarded.

Is that the rule in USA softball? I've always thought that the runner who was obstructed would not be called out.

Ex: Runner is obstructed between 2nd and 3rd, "greedy" coach sees the delayed call, makes choice to send the runner home where she is retired on a tag. Once play stops, umpires conference, OBS call is enforced and retired runner is awarded - and thus, sent back to - 3B. The umpire rules that if not for the obstruction, the runner would have been safe at 3B.

Is this wrong?