6-4-3

[Amy in AZ.]

Runner on 1st base and the ball is hit to the SS. It should have been a routine, 6-4-3. SS throws the runner out at second and the second baseman overthrows 1st. The runner who was out advances toward 3rd, looks confused, and stops 1/2 between 2nd and 3rd.

That drew the throw to 3rd base, but that runner was already out.

A girl just can't vaporize out there, but she did draw the throw. Is there anything that could be called? I am thinking "no." This was ASA 12U.

 

[Sparky Guy]

Did the umpire vocalize the out call loud enough at 2nd base? Often I'll see players confused because they did not hear the call. Never mind seeing the call. Most players go with the verbal signal opposed to the visual signal.

That being said, it sounds like a lack of communication on the part of the players on the field. At some point the catcher needs to take charge. As for the runner doing anything wrong. If the umpire felt the runner was doing it on purpose they could call her for USC or something along those lines.

 

[Umpire]

I would hate to see a base coach give direction to the runners...

 

[MTR]

Runner on 1st base and the ball is hit to the SS. It should have been a routine, 6-4-3. SS throws the runner out at second and the second baseman overthrows 1st. The runner who was out advances toward 3rd, looks confused, and stops 1/2 between 2nd and 3rd.

That drew the throw to 3rd base, but that runner was already out.

A girl just can't vaporize out there, but she did draw the throw. Is there anything that could be called? I am thinking "no." This was ASA 12U.

The question here would be if continuing to run by a retired player drew the throw. In this case, a call most likely rely on what actions the runner may take to confuse the fielder. You said she stopped. If she just stopped, that should be nothing. If she stopped and turn to look for the ball or do anything which may look like she is still active, and that could possibly be considered interference.

 

[SCDad]

The question here would be if continuing to run by a retired player drew the throw. In this case, a call most likely rely on what actions the runner may take to confuse the fielder. You said she stopped. If she just stopped, that should be nothing. If she stopped and turn to look for the ball or do anything which may look like she is still active, and that could possibly be considered interference.

What side is the runners dugout on?

In addition, if the runner is not sure of the call (did not hear it) she should consider herself live.

I have seen a bunch of weird stuff, especially when the umpire is not clear. Or the home base umpire sees something different.

Best for the runner to consider herself live in almost all circumstance.

How many times have we all seen a called out runner, who thought she was safe, just stand on the base until a challenge can be made and she is instructed specifically to leave the base?

It is up to the defense to interpret the out, and adjust their play. I have rarely seen a runner called for interference here.

Reminds me of the hidden ball trick, and its various forms. If a runner is unsure who has the ball, or the exact call, consider yourself live.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

She needed to get across the field to the first base side. But, then, all heck broke loose with a wild throw to first and then, the wild throw to 3rd (thinking she was a runner.) I don't know what I would have done, ducked for cover, I think. And then, there was the batter/baserunner going to 2nd. Oh, well.

 

[MTR]

What side is the runners dugout on?

AFA rule is concerned, it is irrelevant.

In addition, if the runner is not sure of the call (did not hear it) she should consider herself live.

That's why there are coaches, and again, irrelevant as to the application of the rule.

I have seen a bunch of weird stuff, especially when the umpire is not clear. Or the home base umpire sees something different.

Best for the runner to consider herself live in almost all circumstance.

How many times have we all seen a called out runner, who thought she was safe, just stand on the base until a challenge can be made and she is instructed specifically to leave the base?

And that ISN'T against the rules and certainly shouldn't draw a throw.

While the umpire may use whatever is available to determine what a runner may be doing, including some of the stuff you mentioned, are not an excuse to not enforce the rule if the retired runner's action(s) did draw a throw.

It is up to the defense to interpret the out, and adjust their play.

That just isn't true.

I have rarely seen a runner called for interference here.

Reminds me of the hidden ball trick, and its various forms. If a runner is unsure who has the ball, or the exact call, consider yourself live.

And it is rarely called. I've only made such a ruling twice in 48 years of umpiring. However, the umpire must be prepared to make the call and appropriate ruling should it occur.

 

[SCDad]

She needed to get across the field to the first base side. But, then, all heck broke loose with a wild throw to first and then, the wild throw to 3rd (thinking she was a runner.) I don't know what I would have done, ducked for cover, I think. And then, there was the batter/baserunner going to 2nd. Oh, well.

As only a softball dad, and been fortunate to watch over 1000 games, the games I remember most are the ones when everyone's emotions are sky high.

You like most to go your way. Even the one's that don't can become fond memories.

Sounds silly, but to watch something in softball that I have not seen before, and watch others and sometimes myself, blowing their tops or anything out of the ordinary, are the ones I remember.

 

[SCDad]

MTR ... you make my case for me quite nicely.

Sure, bury your head in a rule book. Find exactly how it is written, and try to win an argument against a 12U travel ump who has never, I mean never, made that call before,

Or just go to the game, watch it closely, and figure out the "rules" from there. My way probably wins more arguments than any.

Listen folks, I am just a dumb dad. And this is a RULES board and I am going to lose every argument. However, my input does possibly have value.

Don't put yourself in a position a bad call loses games. Don't focus primarily on the umps. Instead, enjoy the game, and focus all of your efforts as a parent toward getting along with fellow team members. Make it your goal to be the perfect parent, celebrating accomplishments by the team, and the players. Make the players all feel "special" as much as possible. Portray team always.

You will find you win more.

Focusing on the umpires is for losers. Your efforts can be better spent elsewhere. Like focusing more on what actually gets called in your age group, maybe not the specifics of the rule, but how to tell your DD what calls the umpires are actually making so she can adjust her game accordingly.

 

[Umpire]

Runner on 1st base and the ball is hit to the SS. It should have been a routine, 6-4-3. SS throws the runner out at second and the second baseman overthrows 1st. The runner who was out advances toward 3rd, looks confused, and stops 1/2 between 2nd and 3rd.

That drew the throw to 3rd base, but that runner was already out.

A girl just can't vaporize out there, but she did draw the throw. Is there anything that could be called? I am thinking "no." This was ASA 12U.

Where did the batter-runner end up before the play was killed?