1st year 14u - Swing mechanics what to work on

[RichK]

the entire postural thing is the error in the beginning of the sequence when the arms/hands get behind the body(no space) hence the postural changes thereafter. That’s how I see it.

Yeah, I agree with you on the first half. I don't think the second half is *automatic* because I see it too often NOT happen -- even with hitters who load/get to attack position correctly - that I wouldn't trust part 1 to properly create part 2.

I DO think 'part 2' can begin to emerge after MANY at-bats/swings when hitters work to optimize their results (both covering the zone and handling speed AND especially driving the ball hard). But it also can NOT happen, even as a player matures. And that player too often tops out below their max.

More than anything, I think a level of instructional focus on what I described in 'part 2' can ACCELERATE getting there, especially in young hitters but also in hitters that don't actively mimic their favorite MLBers, which boys often do and girls tend not to (though that is changing with great role models like Romero). IMO.

 

[fanboi22]

fanboi22, try to do all the pre-launch work within the s-plane and allow the frontal and transverse movements to be the result in getting fyb.. This should keep her stacked and dynamic when the swing is launched.

Everything occurring at the end of this clip should be reactive to the up front S-plane actions.

Thanks. Just so i understand, to me 'launch' is after toe touch when the barrel starts moving at 'go'. So with that definition, pre-launch would mean to me everything before 'go' of the barrel. In this clip there is much more to be done before 'go'. Just wanted to make sure as if everything pre-launch was sagittal then he would eventually move over the plate.

That said i see frontal plane movement as a part of pre-launch as well.

I also may have a misconception of the definition of FYB. I thought FYB is the final toe touch. Is FYB a single position, or is it the held coiling position during the whole stride? or is it the pre-stride sit into leg position (again a single position at the start, or before stride is a result of FYB)?

 

[fanboi22]

I actually liked her Tee swings a lot better. Her game swing has no downward front shoulder angle. This is causing a very loopy swing. She is under the ball a ton. She must get that front shoulder down toward second base on the move out or she will be launching up hill every time.
W=w told me something that solved all the loading issues for me and my students. Let the gather pickup the front foot.

To me it was a feeling of pushing my rear foot into the ground that caused my front foot to lift. Not actively lifting my front foot. Once this feeling is achieved then the ability to ride the back leg is solved. It is actually fairly simple.

Once she is able to ride her back leg out properly then she can get shorter as she gets to toe touch\heel plant and she can maintain the downward front should angle.

Watch here at 0:33



Getting the downward front shoulder angle sets you up for the swing down to hit up feeling. If you don't get the front shoulder down then the feeling is usually a swing up feeling that results in a slow loopy swing where the barrel is way under the ball. Which is exactly what I am seeing.

Thanks, i think i will really focus on 01:33 of this video more than :33. Let me know i think they show the same thing just a longer better view.

 

[fanboi22]

Try spreading the feet really wide and turn middle from there. The position has your legs in abduction. Much easier to get the rear hip into ER and as the pelvis gets turned by middle the front hip will go into IR and act as a brake. This is not a game swing per se but may help her develop her middle

Ok, i think this goes along with my thoughts on starting with are wider stride as well. thanks.

 

[fanboi22]

[Added: please note...to get to Romero's position she has to swing/launch aggressively DOWN with her lower body actions then turning that into UP into and through contact]

On your added part bolded above.

swing / launch down with lower body actions. can you elaborate? My feel is that the body posture angle has to be there more so than any active aggressive lower body down action. So sorry, if you could help me understand. thanks.

 

[fanboi22]

Yes, I see the tee swing difference. Start taking her tee swing into front-toss then into machine pitch (I like it cause you get consistent speed) and start to groove it, and then hopefully onto the field. Cool.

For sure!! planned on doing that yesterday but work got in the way. will be working on today and tomorrow soft toss and pitch (for as much as i can pitch) to make sure this can translate to live.

One of the main key things i am focusing on is, however we work to get the best launch position, that she is consistent everytime doing it.

i feel this is absolutely key in getting her timing. She cannot rush. This routine to get to toe touch has to be the same time each swing so that she can count on that to be her timing mechanism. If she uses the pitcher hand at 12 oclock to start her motion and she blazes past her, start right out of the glove. or if pitcher is slow, start later down the circle. She has never had a consistent routine to toe touch. so i am very curious how that will help her, if it does at all.

 

[fanboi22]

the entire postural thing is the error in the beginning of the sequence when the arms/hands get behind the body(no space) hence the postural changes thereafter. That’s how I see it.

Agreed, and i think i see it at 1:33 in the JD video that was referenced. He gets scap loaded and stretched and isnt twisting his torso back. pinch the scap vs twist the torso with a better over the plate tilted posture. We will work on that.

 

[Work=wins]

Yeah, I agree with you on the first half. I don't think the second half is *automatic* because I see it too often NOT happen -- even with hitters who load/get to attack position correctly - that I wouldn't trust part 1 to properly create part 2.

I DO think 'part 2' can begin to emerge after MANY at-bats/swings when hitters work to optimize their results (both covering the zone and handling speed AND especially driving the ball hard). But it also can NOT happen, even as a player matures. And that player too often tops out below their max.

More than anything, I think a level of instructional focus on what I described in 'part 2' can ACCELERATE getting there, especially in young hitters but also in hitters that don't actively mimic their favorite MLBers, which boys often do and girls tend not to (though that is changing with great role models like Romero). IMO.

don’t disagree. Installing posture with the correct resistance in the right order will correct the posture throughout. It all effects one another. It’s not as simple as ‘stay in your posture’.

When kids can only hit one side of the plate or one speed, posture and the engine that powers and stops it is usually the problem. It’s difficult to explain or examine. There are a lot of variables, but It could be as easy as the pelvis or front shoulder HAS to open early too the pelvis IMPEDING space for the hands to work through. Either could be due to ground reaction or pelvis set up. There really are too many to count.

 

[fanboi22]

Fanboi,

Don’t over think this...... what I believe everyone is basically stating is that she has to much slack in the system. She has to develop a movement pattern that creates some tension throughout the body pre-swing.....

I will use my DD as an example..... she likes to keep a very vertical barrel in her set up..... The problem with that is that her arms and hands or to low IMO so it leaves slack in place......resulting in drag much like your DD..... My DW sent a quick video of an at bat to me from last weekend while she was somewhat struggling..... The problem was quickly noticed and relayed to her...... she then started barreling the ball up much better...... My DD prefers a vertical barrel so, the way she combated this was to get the hands further away from her body (in the S plane). This helped create a little tension throughout her back resulting in better connection to the middle. I am trying to get her to raise the hands and arms with a more laid back barrel but she is pushing back on it some because it feels wired lol........ but she will get there and so will your DD, you guys just need to keep working and trying different things.

Do you see what I am referring to about my DD?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks DRD. And i hope no one takes anything i say as critical. I am appreciating this whole dialogue and really getting alot out of it. So hopefully i can relay to DD.

Your first sentence though to me is ambiguous, bolded ' too much slack in the system'. ok

But when you describe your DD, you get into body positions which i really like and helps me visualize.

you mention your DD's hands/arms are too low. I see that in the elbow never gets level with the shoulders. i think i see this in more of the neck slot swings. maybe not. She looks not to ever really pinch the scap. where your DD doesn't twist her torso in the move out, mine does, causing other issues. Your DD looks to have a great sequence and kinetic chain, just that the distal portion hasnt taken enough of the slack out. i think i get it.

i am confused that you say you had her move her hands out the s-plane or farther forward away and over the plate. Did this create a longer space between the set up hands and where the hands had to be at launch? I would have said i understood better if you said she move her hands back in the frontal plane towards the catcher. 'walk away from the hands'. or i would have understood higher elbow and more scap pinch. I guess i don't understand what you suggested to your DD or how it helped. sorry.

I think if my DD keeps the same elbow movement but does it against a non twisting torso, that she will create more stretch and have a better launch.

 

[TDS]

Thanks. Just so i understand, to me 'launch' is after toe touch when the barrel starts moving at 'go'. So with that definition, pre-launch would mean to me everything before 'go' of the barrel. In this clip there is much more to be done before 'go'. Just wanted to make sure as if everything pre-launch was sagittal then he would eventually move over the plate.

Yes, attempt to do all your work (actions) within the s-plane.. Bonds releases into his fyb leveraged position..

That said i see frontal plane movement as a part of pre-launch as well.

What frontal plane actions are you referring to ?

I also may have a misconception of the definition of FYB. I thought FYB is the final toe touch. Is FYB a single position, or is it the held coiling position during the whole stride? or is it the pre-stride sit into leg position (again a single position at the start, or before stride is a result of FYB)?

FYB is the dynamic position one gets into before whipping the barrel (no pause)..


Miggy swinging after becoming leveraged fyb.