10U learn screwball?

[corlay]

Quick question for the group here.

My kid just turned 10 and has been pitching for three seasons.
This season is the first year that she's pitching with "proper" form,
as she's decided to take it seriously, and we started working out with a dedicated pitching coach back in Feb.

Playing "up" this season with our 12Us, she's adapted very well to 12" ball and 40' distance.

Anyway, my question:
Right now she throws a fastball and a change (circle-ish grip).
She's pretty good with both now.
After working on the change for previous 1.5 months, she confidently throws it in games now, getting K's with it.

With her increased skill, she has started to get very down on herself in our backyard practice sessions, for more meticulous reasons than ever before. It used to be if she could keep the ball around the plate she was satisfied, but now she expects better of herself. (as she should?)

The issue of the moment is screwball rotation. She's always had this natural tendency. In past seasons, a good 80% of her pitches had screwball rotation. Now, with better mechanics, she gets good 12-6 forward rotation on her fastballs maybe 33% of the time, with another 1/3 sort of a "titled/hybrid rotation", and the last 1/3 a dead on screwball. She can recognize both visually and in feel when it comes off her hand screwball, and she really gets down on herself about it when it happens, and she can't seem to stop it.

The reason for the unintentional screwballs, I'm sure, is that she tends to "close" to homeplate too early, before she releases the ball, and then compensates for this by rotating her hand at delivery to get the ball trajectory back to the strike zone. We do work on/talk about "staying turned" a little longer, and when she's able to do it, the ball rotates like a fastball should, has a bit more pop, and is more consistently placed where she wants it. But she just doesn't have a great "feel" for when she's closing too soon, to maintain any consistency. Closing too soon seems to either yield a screwball in the zone, or a high-away ball (to RH batter) with fastball rotation.

With her just turning 10 last week, I'm sure a lot of this is her physical immaturity? As she ages/grows I know that she will get better command of her motion and better "feel".

But in the meantime, I had this notion to maybe suggest to her coach that she purposefully work on developing a screwball? My reasoning is twofold: a.) she already throws a pretty nice one now, even if it is accidental b.) maybe if she were instructed on how to throw a screwball properly, it would help her "feel" the differences between a screwball and fastball motion/delivery, and help her to learn to throw one or the other *on purpose*.

I do realize that speed is a factor (in addition to spin) in throwing a "real" breaking ball, and my girl isn't in that range yet. I've never actually measured it with a device, but I would imagine she's in the 43-45 range with her best fastball?

Thoughts?

 

[BradB41]

You could try a traditional screwball, but for a kid your daughter's age, you might think about a cutter. It's probably going to be easier for her. I picked this one up from watching some Hillhouse videos. Just have her grip a fastball on the "C", then slide her middle and index fingers together. Tell her to apply pressure on the seam with the tip of her index finger. Then have her throw a good hard fastball down the middle. The pressure from the index finger will give the ball a screwball spin and will cause the ball to tail inside on a righty or away from a lefty (assuming your DD is a righty). You might be surprised when you see it, and it doesn't require all that "turn the door knob" stuff.

 

[halskinner]

Are you throwing with open or closed mechanics?

Does she throw a peel drop?

If she throws a peel drop and uses closed mechanics, have her follow through towards the glove shoulder and let the ball come off the thumb side of the index finger. With not much practice, this will produce a really nice down and in and wont mess with her mechanics.

I will also add, having a speed in between fast and slow and usibg all three, she will be very successful at the 10 and 12u levels. Its not the feel so much as the movement that will iom press her.

Be sure she watches the ball and sees how it breaks. I think the majority of 10u and 12u dont track the movement. That was always something I had to teach them to do. And, once they saw the movement, now we have a great inspiration to workl even harder to make it break better / more.

 

[inde53546]

Hal please explain what you mean by closed mechanics because sometimes some people, myself included view closed mechanics differently than you. If she pitches 45 degrees that's closed for you right?

 

[halskinner]

Open = Hips are completely open to 90 degrees at landing foot touchdown.

Closed = hips at 45 degrees at landing foot touchdown.

Slam the door = hips at zero degrees at landing foot touchdown.

 

[sluggers]

I wouldn't worry about it. IMHO she is too young to learn a breaking pitch. Focus on location and changing speeds.

 

[corlay]

Are you throwing with open or closed mechanics?

She is being taught "closed" (~45d at touchdown). But i will say she has strong natural tendencies to slam door before release, especially upper torso. Part of what we are continually working on is to "get a good turn" (get "open") prior to touchdown. She usually gets her hips pretty well open, but her shoulders like to get pretty closed. Although, every once in a while she will hit her hip with the ball just prior to release. Then i know she isnt getting open enough, and well spend some time talking and reminding ourselves what the proper mechanics and adjustment needs to be. Always fighting that...

Does she throw a peel drop?

No. I do realize that the normal progression of pitches for a young athelete is fastball, change, drop; but since that screwball motion seems to be somewhat naturally in place, it seemed somewhat logical to progress there next?

Be sure she watches the ball and sees how it breaks. I think the majority of 10u and 12u dont track the movement. That was always something I had to teach them to do. And, once they saw the movement, now we have a great inspiration to workl even harder to make it break better / more.

I gotta say, its been a blast watching her these last few games using her change, and realizing some success with it. Progressing beyond "just throw strikes" (pet peeve of mine when coaches tell their 10U's this!) to starting to get a taste of the cat-and-mouse game that can exist between pitcher/catcher and batter. Had practice with the team today, and had her explain the "signs" she and i use for fastball/change to our catchers, so they can get in on the fun.

Also, having more than one pitch (fastball/change right now) has really helped her focuss a bit more, because her pre-motion routine now includes gripping the ball for the pitch shes about to throw, instead of the same every time. Just another little nuance that i think helps her to visualize what she needs to do before beginning her windup.

 

[corlay]

I wouldn't worry about it. IMHO she is too young to learn a breaking pitch. Focus on location and changing speeds.

Ray, i believe that you may be right. The goal here is to get her throwing her fastball with the correct rotation everytime, and not specifically to add a breaking pitch to her arsenal. I had thought that maybe teaching her *how* to throw a screwball, would also help her to learn how *not* to throw a screwball. Does that even make sense? There is the threat of hitting her with too much information too soon, and just confusing the hell out of her and actually making things worse, which is why I sought advice in the first place. This is my first rodeo with a young pitcher, and Im guessing not so for many of the contributers here?

 

[sluggers]

Most people here have been around softball for years. This is a recurring argument.

Your DD is doing very well and having fun. The season has just started. Don't try something new now. Start on breaking balls in the fall.

 

[halskinner]

I have always had a belief and I put it down on paper and hung it up when teaching; "Build on their strenghts as you work on their weaknesses".

Having said that, I would start with building, understanding and controlling speed. We would always try to work onm increasing speed. (fast) Then when the speed was good, we worked on a slow change up. Once both of those were good and the student could throw them well on command, we would work on an off-speed. OOnce the student could use all three and throw any of them on command, they now understood 'Controlling speed. I would place them in the batters box and pitch to them with all three speeds. With every single pitch, I had them tell me what speed the pitch was coming in at BEFORE it reached them. They would yell either fast, medium or slow.

It took a few times doing this but they would get really good at it. I would also point out to them how long it would take them to decide vhow fast it was coming in at. At first they would watch it and not start to yell the speed until the ball was almost there. They got faster at it, pretty quick. At that point they really started to understand how controlling your pitching speed meant controlling the batters., Why? Because as long as it took them to decide how fast my pitches were coming in at, that was also how long the batters had to watch the ball travel before THEY knew when to start their swing.

Now, as far as normal progression goes, their are many opinion out there as what should be next. I would normally go to the peel drop next. However, MANY times the pitcher would show me a screwball spin and movement naturally. A few of those and we switched to working on a down and in. I made sure they would watch it and SEE that movement, then we worked on throwing that on purpose and making it better.

So my next step with them was whatever they might show me that they were ALREADY doing. This method gave my ypoungest students a ton of confidence.

So, to your question. Would it be the norm to teach a screwball next? If she shows one already, HECK YA! Build on her strengths as you work on her weaknesses!

I cannot stress making the youngest student actually SE the ball breaking. Watch the smiles on their faces, priceless!