Natural drop movement on fastball?

riseball said:

When a pitch moves significantly more in the last 25% of the time of flight than it does in the previous 75%, what is that if not a late break? More break?

View attachment 12390

Click to expand...

While I love those guys at NASA that graph is a little misleading. Here is an actual MLB pitcher and his pitches. To me the slider is late break (small break and has the similar path as the fastball at the beginning of the pitch. The curveball is just a breaking pitch. It has it's own path.

All of the pitches are always "breaking" the entire time of the pitch.

i thought late break was the result of higher spin rates and better spin axis orientation, the movement thus starts sooner and is more pronounced at the plate.

Speed of ball has to do with it too. Newton's 2nd law or NASA, daughter is not home yet so I have not been able to ask her.

GunnerShotgun said:

While I love those guys at NASA that graph is a little misleading. Here is an actual MLB pitcher and his pitches. To me the slider is late break (small break and has the similar path as the fastball at the beginning of the pitch. The curveball is just a breaking pitch. It has it's own path.

All of the pitches are always "breaking" the entire time of the pitch.

Click to expand...

Not sure how physics differs between baseball and softball. You are correct that pitches break throughout the entire pitch. Now complete the analysis; because velocity is less at the plate that is where you will see the most movement. Hence the "late break" or more aptly, increased movement.

riseball said:

Not sure how physics differs between baseball and softball. You are correct that pitches break throughout the entire pitch. Now complete the analysis; because velocity is less at the plate that is where you will see the most movement. Hence the "late break" or more aptly, increased movement.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree that it moves more at the end. By definition a late break is a small break that differs slightly from a fastball (or expected flight path). A drop or curve with a big hook is just a breaking ball. When people say late break I think of Mariano's cutter.

"So, what is late break? In my view, late break actually means "not much break," meaning that the difference between no break and actual break is small enough at 20 feet that the batter can't perceive it." Dr. Allan Nathan

Also consider, with "late break",
going along with what Sluggers has suggested...
if you are sitting fastball, and the pitcher delivers slider,
the "late break" is a product of your own perception,
in that you have to constantly take visual "snapshots" of any pitch as it travels to you,
and make predictions about where it will be once it reaches home plate.
If a pitch is actually constantly "breaking", but in the first 1/2 of the path of travel it is nearly the same as a fastball,
that pitch will seem to "jump" or dive" or "veer" a bit once it really deviates from your mind's predicted path, in the last 1/2 of the path of travel.
This forces your mind to "re-calibrate" and adjust the predicted path, and this jarrs your perception, giving the illusion of "late break"

A good example would be a cutter that misses by 3 ball lengths off of the plate. It still had a small break but I wouldn't consider it a late break as it was never on the standard path and did not fool the batter.

quincy said:

ball gets to batter then breaks opposed to turning the entire way.

Click to expand...

Does that mean breaks the entire way?

sluggers said:

After your around softball for a while, you are able to identify someone throwing a "real" drop.

Click to expand...

Do you mean players only, or even lame-rear dads? Myself included.

GunnerShotgun said:

Similar to a riseball, just because a batter isn't there to witness "the rise" doesn't mean that it didn't "rise".

Click to expand...

If a tree falls in the woods...