Around Instead of Down Release

We've recently switched from an HE release to an IR release (a work in progress). My DD is starting to have an issue where shes throwing around her body. It seems that shes doing a good job of pulling her elbow down, palms still up, pinky still leading but from that point she has a habit of wrapping her forearm around her belly rather than whipping it down through the release zone.

Working drills like "lock it in" or "unlock it" she has the same tenancy and i think thats where it starts. I've watched every video i can find and read most of the comments and i cant tell if we are doing something wrong. She states that those two drills are uncomfortable, is that an indication that he arm is at the wrong angle or elbow is too tight? To offset the discomfort shes gone back to locking in her elbow and keeping it straight sometimes.

Thoughts?

[video=youtube_share;fIkpilkCcEQ]http://youtu.be/fIkpilkCcEQ[/video]

To quote the esteemed Mr. Hillhouse..."power comes across the body", finishing across and towards the glove side shoulder is not a bad thing. When you throw overhand do you throw straight down or does your hand and arm finish more towards the glove side thigh? Pitching is no different, I would not worry about this, she looks better already. Just keep on doing the drills and focus on improving her posture so she is standing taller and her glove arm is a little higher, removing that leaning she is doing and working on a nice loose and powerful arm. keep it up.

First let me say thanks for noticing the improvement, shes working very hard on it, almost a little to hard for me somedays .

Second, sorry, i wasnt very clear and i just noticed that the video isnt a good one because she actually does it closer to correct than i give her credit for. What im referring to isnt her finish, its her release point. Rather than whipping the arm DOWN through the release zone, she is wrapping it around. Imagine the elbow locked in at her side, arm out at 9:00(ish) with palm up and rather than driving the forearm down and whipping down to the release zone shes wrapping that arm straight around her (still at that 9:00ish plane). I will try to get some video soon.

The reason im concerned is two things. This often results in her missing extreme left but the biggest concern is that when she says she gets to about 9:00 on the downswing she feels stress and almost pain in the outside of her arm and forearm. She says she also feels the same stress when we do the two aforementioned drills. Im just curious if i have her arm at the wrong angle because when we first started she said it feels more natural, now it feels forced and straining her arm. Ill try to get some video of her doing the drills as that may be the best way.

Thanks for the input, keep it coming.

An updated video would be helpful. "Forearm wrap" around the hip is a cue I like, but what you mentioned sounds like she might be forcing it and getting a bit too much bend. Think loose and relaxed from the elbow down. One issue might be that she doesn't like throwing slowly and I think it's really important to start out easy when learning to whip. Here's some clips that show a loose forearm wrap/brush:

女å*￾ソフト上野投手　投ç￾ƒãƒ•ã‚©ãƒ¼ãƒ*　2011.05.22-01 - YouTube
drop ball osterman - YouTube
drop ball finch - YouTube

When learning to whip underhand, isolation of the last quadrant of the motion is extremely beneficial to gain the feel of I/R EARLY IN THE LEARNING CURVE........

Here's what I'll say about your DD..........She is throwing off/at the front leg vs. the rear leg.......And she's way to square to the target.

I suspect her discomfort when doing the unlock it, or 9:00 drill is directly related to these issues.......

Posture and release point are perpetual.........I.E. if you release out front you must bend over to keep the ball in the zone.......Conversely, if you bend over, you must release out front to keep from throwing the ball into the ground..........Perpetual flaw..........

As I've told many many people here..........The fix for forward leaning posture is not about simply forcing someone to stand taller with a slight rearward lean.......Because this is very confusing to a pitcher whose ingrained release point is out in front........

The fix for forward leaning posture is to move the release point rearward......WHERE IT BELONGS..........As you work on moving the posture to a more upright or slight rearward lean, staying behind the front hip........

Regarding too square.........I suspect part of her discomfort while doing these simple drills relates to this..........Get her to turn her hips and shoulders sideways to the target as she takes the ball back........And get her to stay mostly sideways by limiting the amount of body rotation on the downswing as she brings the down and through to the target..........Releasing off the back hip, not the front hip.........



Fixing her release point and posture, and limiting the amount of body rotation during the release phase should be beneficial to her overall progress..........

BM - why is it that so many young pitchers have the forward lean/ and or the release point too far out in front? Is there something that alot of us are missing when we are trying to teach IR??

Yes there is.........Release point drives posture.......Pitchers must be taught correctly that the ball is thrown off the back hip/leg while limiting body rotation........

99.999999999% of the time.........Forward lean is a result of a forward release point and/or too much body rotation in the delivery, pre-release............

BM - why is it that so many young pitchers have the forward lean/ and or the release point too far out in front? Is there something that alot of us are missing when we are trying to teach IR??

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IMHO, kids confuse overhand throwing (lean forward, and release the ball in front of the body) with underhand throwing (stay tall, get open, release the ball in the middle of the body.)

Kids are not taught to throw underhand first. They are first taught to pitch. (My DD was pitching for 5 years before she learned how to throw the ball underhanded. It seems completely backwards to me now.)

If a kid who doesn't know how to throw a baseball were to show up for pitching lessons, where would the teacher start? The teacher would start by teaching the kid first how to throw overhand, and then progressing from there to pitching.

But, when a kid wants to learn how to pitch, instructors (and Daddies) give them a ball, put them on a rubber and start trying to teach them how to pitch. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

sluggers said:

...Kids are not taught to throw underhand first. They are first taught to pitch. (My DD was pitching for 5 years before she learned how to throw the ball underhanded. It seems completely backwards to me now.)...

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Great point. I have often wondered the same thing about hitting and bunting. You would think that kids would first develop hand eye coordination by learning to bunt then progress to a full swing. But we teach the full swing then about 5 years later we just expect them to be able to bunt.

As usual folks, thanks.

I need a better camera but for now we've simply been using the Ipad and an app called ubersense. After reading the replies, then going back and watching all of these videos i've never really noticed before but she consistently releases the ball at her front leg. By simply getting her to stop leaning forward and finishing straight or at an angle back should automatically change that release point to her back leg (assuming timing all stays the same). Sounds simple enough but do you have any suggestions as to the best way to achieve this? Im pretty sure tying a rope to her waste and yanking her backwards every time she leans forward wont be productive, lol.

We are spending much less time working on individual phases of the complete motion and spending more time trying to go through full or half the motion at half speed or even slower (which is tough to get her to slow down). Her favorite part of practice by far is simply playing catch underhanded to warm up (thanks for the suggestion). Right now we really only do 4 daily drills (lock it in, Unlock it into glove, walk-ins and one leg push throughs), any recommendations on anything to add to that drill list that may help her posture and glove hand or do you think the best way to move forward is put more emphasis on those issues in the drills we already do?

On that same note, anyone been to a Hillhouse lesson? I've watched most of his footage on youtube and for the most part its in line with what you read here. Gotta say i've become a believer in this method and just wondering how valuable first hand coaching could be. I ask because its not cheap, the closest he gets here is still a good days drive so your talking about a two day trip for an hour or two lesson. Worth it?