The Ethics of Softball. Your Input.

Rocketech1 · Jun 13, 2017

BretMan said:
My experience has been that calling an illegal pitch almost always puts an end to further illegal pitches.

My other experience is that when you call one, a coach is most likely going to go crazy and scream, "She's never been called for that before!".

Had an unusual experience last weekend. Called an IP on a pitcher on her second pitch of the game. Explained why it was called. Coach just calmly said, "Thank you", for the explanation, talked to his pitcher and...she didn't pitch illegally the rest of the game.

BretMan - why do you think there is no consistent enforcement of illegal pitching? We had an umpire here tell is that they were instructed to NOT call IPs or they would never work tournaments again. I don't see this same issue in baseball. What is it about the "leap and drag" requirements that gets so many pitchers and umpires in trouble? Thanks.

Rocketech1 · Jun 13, 2017

riseball said:
Another popular myth is that enforcement of the current pitching rule is not possible. Yet we have many umpires at all levels claiming that they have been directed not to call it. Which one is it? How can they be directed not call something they cannot see in the first place? You cannot have it both ways. Again, no reasons just excuses and a transparent agenda to dumb down the game to benefit the skippies.

We can have an umpire answer this question but the short answer is both. Some umpires see the more egregious IPs but calling it slows the game down and is too penal (baserunners move up one base and ball on batter) so they choose not to callit, others can't see the smaller leaps from home plate (most games have 1 umpire) and too difficult to tell if a replant is actually happening or not, so they focus on other areas of the game like calling balls and strikes, baserunners, etc.

You need to remember most softball is played with timed games. If you have an umpire start calling IPs for every pitching infraction would slow the game down to a crawl.

Also, remember the fiasco with Kenzie Fowler (AZ) in 2010 called for 8 IPs. If it's so easy to fix how come she couldn't be in compliance. Katie Sunderland Finch (CAL) went as far as putting a flap on the end of her shoe to drag along the ground. There is something unique about the "leap and drag" mechanics that creates real issues with compliance and enforcement. and it starts early in their pitching careers.

Easton33 · Jun 13, 2017

Players calling opposing team's pitches from the dugout? Ethical?

Dabears17 · Jun 13, 2017

My DD was called for 4 IPs her last tournament. 3 for 'leaping' and the last for not simulating taking a signal. I'm getting old, but in 12 years of being around softball. I don't recall leaping being called, only the 'easy' not simulating the signal being taken or not bringing the hands together before starting the motion.

I thanked the umpire in-between innings and the other team's coach after the game. My DD is pitching ~2 mph faster than she was before leaping became more noticeable, but I know if she fixes the mechanical flaws causing her to leap, she'll be pitching ~2 mph faster than she is with the leap.

Now that an umpire has called it, I have her attention to fix it.

riseball · Jun 13, 2017

Rocketech1 said:
We can have an umpire answer this question but the short answer is both. Some umpires see the more egregious IPs but calling it slows the game down and is too penal (baserunners move up one base and ball on batter) so they choose not to callit, others can't see the smaller leaps from home plate (most games have 1 umpire) and too difficult to tell if a replant is actually happening or not, so they focus on other areas of the game like calling balls and strikes, baserunners, etc.

You need to remember most softball is played with timed games. If you have an umpire start calling IPs for every pitching infraction would slow the game down to a crawl.

Also, remember the fiasco with Kenzie Fowler (AZ) in 2010 called for 8 IPs. If it's so easy to fix how come she couldn't be in compliance. Katie Sunderland Finch (CAL) went as far as putting a flap on the end of her shoe to drag along the ground. There is something unique about the "leap and drag" mechanics that creates real issues with compliance and enforcement. and it starts early in their pitching careers.

Maybe in 8U REC league there is one umpire, but looking at the game as a whole that is certainly the exception not the rule. We cannot adjust rules to suit the needs of under funded REC leagues.

Properly trained umpires have no problem recognizing an IP. I agree that if a kid has minimal athletic ability they may struggle pitching legally. But if they can chew gun and walk it is not a difficult task. Beyond REC league the vast majority of pitchers are legal or could comply with little to no mechanical adjustment. Only requiring increased focus to pitch legally. The claim that it is widespread, an epidemic, and pitchers are physically unable to pitch legally is simply ludicrous. Any pitcher that cannot correct their mechanics and pitch legally within a couple of weeks is probably so screwed up mechanically that they have all sorts of issues. You do not make accommodations to suit the needs of players with substandard skills. What next? Go to 4 or 5 strikes because some kids can't hit?

Again your premise that calling IP's would "slow the game down to a crawl" is fatally flawed. Everyone knows that is not the case. It is just a talking point with zero foundation in fact or human experience. If umpires start calling IP's from the start of a game the result will be compliance for the rest of the game. Just need to move past the initial "it was never called before" garbage and people will understand that it will be called for the entire game.

riseball · Jun 13, 2017

Easton33 said:
Players calling opposing team's pitches from the dugout? Ethical?

It is accepted as part of the game. Kind or bush league to yell it out. Best to stay quiet and just use it to your benefit.

Rocketech1 · Jun 13, 2017

riseball said:
Maybe in 8U REC league there is one umpire, but looking at the game as a whole that is certainly the exception not the rule. We cannot adjust rules to suit the needs of under funded REC leagues.

Properly trained umpires have no problem recognizing an IP. I agree that if a kid has minimal athletic ability they may struggle pitching legally. But if they can chew gun and walk it is not a difficult task. Beyond REC league the vast majority of pitchers are legal or could comply with little to no mechanical adjustment. Only requiring increased focus to pitch legally. The claim that it is widespread, an epidemic, and pitchers are physically unable to pitch legally is simply ludicrous. Any pitcher that cannot correct their mechanics and pitch legally within a couple of weeks is probably so screwed up mechanically that they have all sorts of issues. You do not make accommodations to suit the needs of players with substandard skills. What next? Go to 4 or 5 strikes because some kids can't hit?

Again your premise that calling IP's would "slow the game down to a crawl" is fatally flawed. Everyone knows that is not the case. It is just a talking point with zero foundation in fact or human experience. If umpires start calling IP's from the start of a game the result will be compliance for the rest of the game. Just need to move past the initial "it was never called before" garbage and people will understand that it will be called for the entire game.

Let me ask one question. You think Cat Osterman could easily change her pitching mechanics in a few weeks (to eliminate her leap and replant) and be just as an effective pitcher? I think she is an athlete....

riseball · Jun 13, 2017

Rocketech1 said:
Let me ask one question. You think Cat Osterman could easily change her pitching mechanics in a few weeks (to eliminate her leap and replant) and be just as an effective pitcher? I think she is an athlete....

Doubtful since she is retired. Back in the day, without question.

MacLobo · Jun 15, 2017

riseball said:
It is accepted as part of the game. Kind or bush league to yell it out. Best to stay quiet and just use it to your benefit.

We always had a code. It would change often, but as an example, if you saw a curve ball called, you'd use their number. Fastball was last name. "Send it for a Ride, 24!" Or "Send it for a Ride, Johnson!"
Mostly, so that we wouldn't tip off the other team when we were on to their signs! Nothing unethical about it. Just part of the game

hssoftball101 · Jun 21, 2017

Men can crow hop. That's how they throw 85mph. Why not just let the girls do it too at 46ft and move on?

The Ethics of Softball. Your Input.

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