Too Many Teams

[The Man In Blue]

Related to the everyone needs an elite pitcher thing...why aren't coaches just honest about their level of play?

In most of the cases I am familiar with, the coach would have to be honest with himself first. Delusion carries you a long way.

 

[grcsftbll]

The reality is, the large majority of TB teams don't care about the elite levels of the sport. They are just teams full of girls that love playing softball.

Maybe this is geographical but I swear every tryout ad I saw this year talked about getting them ready for college. Must be the age, going into 14U now. My daughter is 12 and she loves softball, and IMO is pretty good at it, but she's not interested in college right now. She'd play college ball if she didn't have to take classes (haha), but she isn't sure college is going to be the right career path for her. It's not easy, finding a decent 14U team with good coaching that isn't going to be traveling every weekend and playing in 3 or 4 expensive showcases.

 

[FP26]

Now that the silly season of tryouts is wrapping up, it's time for the local coaches out there to switch gears from posting their tryout info online to posting rants about how there are too many teams and that the talent pool is too diluted. There are raging discussions on three local TB message boards that I follow at the moment.

I'm struggling to understand the problem here. I think it's great that there are so many teams, and so many opportunities for girls to play softball at whatever level they are able to compete. The biggest gripe I hear from coaches is this 'dilution' of talent, but I can't get my head around why this is an issue.

I live in PA but DD plays for a team in NJ. Last season there were 10 A-level teams in NJ at the 12U level. In reality, the top four or five were way ahead of the rest. To me, that represents a problem of concentration, not dilution. If four teams have such a surplus of talent at 1-9, and four pitchers who dominate, what good does that do anyone? These are the coaches that are complaining that they have to travel out of state just to play a competitive game.

The funniest thing is the coaches that are starting new teams, and then complaining that there are too many teams out there and that they can't fill a roster. Well, boo-hoo Nobody is flocking to your Triple Diamond Elite Premiere Select Ladybugs even though you're a 12-time runner up for NFCA coach of the year. Oh, and your daughter is a pitcher.

Sorry, that's my rant for the day. If someone has a cogent argument for why there should be fewer softball teams in the world, I'm all ears.

Looks like a good thread. I have not had a chance to read the entire thing yet, but I definitely plan to. For now, I will offer my 2 cents. The problem with having more teams is that coaches have to, well, coach. I'm from PA as well. From what I have seen, there seems to be a growing number of "recruiters" and a dwindling number of actual "coaches". Some would prefer to poach players from other teams by promising them innings, playing time, trophies, or whatever else convinces them to switch. Maybe they could actually try to teach the girls they have how to play softball. I know, earth shattering idea, right?

 

[Rick M]

Maybe this is geographical but I swear every tryout ad I saw this year talked about getting them ready for college. Must be the age, going into 14U now.

I've seen this too, as DD is at the same age. Her own organization has been hyping the 'college prep' angle in all of their tryout postings and during recent preseason parent meetings. I take it as mostly a sales pitch, but in the case of DD's org, they really do focus on running practices at a college level. There's definitely a pressure tactic aimed at parents: get your child preparing for college now or she'll be left behind.

 

[Rick M]

Nobody is saying to give up ball alltogether..maybe just TB until the kid has progressed to a point where they are really ready. The rec leagues would benefit and the parents whose kids probably are not ready for TB would benefit by not having to spend 1000+ dollars per year.

It would be wonderful if there was enough opportunity in Rec for all girls to keep playing until their skill level developed into what might have been considered true "travel ball" 20 years ago. Inasmuch as the dearth of pitching dictates the number of teams, the number of coaches is an equally big problem.

Rec leagues are run by volunteers, and (more often than not) it's the parents of the good players who eventually move on to travel that volunteer the most, and bring the most skill to the table. As soon as these parents recognize that their girl's skills are not going to advance playing two low-level Rec games a week, they start looking for more.

It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg conundrum. In order to get better, your child has to be challenged by playing on a better team with more skilled teammates. By making that move to the next level, by definition, you are watering down the skill level of the team you're joining.

 

[_MIA_]

It would be wonderful if there was enough opportunity in Rec for all girls to keep playing until their skill level developed into what might have been considered true "travel ball" 20 years ago. Inasmuch as the dearth of pitching dictates the number of teams, the number of coaches is an equally big problem.

Rec leagues are run by volunteers, and (more often than not) it's the parents of the good players who eventually move on to travel that volunteer the most, and bring the most skill to the table. As soon as these parents recognize that their girl's skills are not going to advance playing two low-level Rec games a week, they start looking for more.

It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg conundrum. In order to get better, your child has to be challenged by playing on a better team with more skilled teammates. By making that move to the next level, by definition, you are watering down the skill level of the team you're joining.

Agreed. I didn't coach but moved my kid to TB for the similar reasons that you mentioned above. That said, IF my DD's local rec league had had an all star team at the end of the year where they could go play in a few tournaments either against other all star teams or maybe low B/C TB tournaments I wouldn't have necessarily made the move so soon. The rec leagues have to want to stay relevant..at this point it seems like a lot them have just thrown their hands up and said we give up. Have coaching clinics, hitting clinics, pitching clinics, etc. Most people would spend an extra $100 a year for rec for these sorts of things especially considering the other option is TB which would be an extra $1000+

 

[bmakj]

Nobody is saying to give up ball alltogether..maybe just TB until the kid has progressed to a point where they are really ready. The rec leagues would benefit and the parents whose kids probably are not ready for TB would benefit by not having to spend 1000+ dollars per year.

girls are not going to get ready for TB playing rec as it stands now in most places...simple fact.

 

[_MIA_]

girls are not going to get ready for TB playing rec...simple fact.

? My DD played rec for 3 years before moving to TB..granted it was at the ages of 5-7. Now if you were to say playing rec alone, without working with their parents on the side, I would probably agree but I could probably say the same thing about just playing TB without doing any side work...Softball skill development needs reps. Team practices and games, whether they are TB or Rec, do not give players enough reps to develop properly imo.

 

[BT3100]

One of the things that gets very little mention in these types of discussions in the lack of good coaches. We live in an area where a tryout for decent team will draw 40-50 kids. So if I wanted to get a few friends together to assemble a team we would have no problems doing that but... We have been fortunate to have had really great coaches for DD since she was 10. Were going on year 4 with the same organization and we think it's the very best one in our area in PA.
When I look around I see kids jumping teams every year or two and some have parents who create their own teams. At first glance it appears that the family or the kid may not have been happy with playing time or role so they left and created their own team. Most times it's that the coaching was so poor that it probably forced them to leave. I have never once thought about starting my own team mainly because the coaches DD has had have all been top quality and every one could invariable do a much better job of coaching her than I could. DD has reached a level now where she could carry a team as a #1 pitcher but I want her to be a #2 or #3 on a team at the highest level of play that we can find for her. I want her to be pushed and forced to get better every day. I could never assemble a team that could serve those goals. I see a lot of parents who struggle with coming to grips with how much more work their kids need to do to get better, and that sometimes drives kids to leave teams. But mostly it's the coaching IMO.
Keep in mind that at the 10-14U level all that really matters is at the end of the year... has your DD made progress and is she better than she was last year? Unless she is a complete stud no one is getting real looks at 14. Now once 16's come it's important to get your DD with a team that has a track record of placing girls in the type of programs that your think your DD can compete in at the college level. Very few programs have real track records of doing that. I also think that social media has given parents a platform to post trophy after trophy in an effort to show their friends, family and enemies how good their child is doing. So they want to have the DD on a great team regardless of her skill level. But smart people see through that. Especially when HS season comes and they must compete for a spot on a team where there are very little if any parent coaches to carry them. That's where we start to hear about politics.

 

[bmakj]

? My DD played rec for 3 years before moving to TB..granted it was at the ages of 5-7. Now if you were to say playing rec alone, without working with their parents on the side, I would probably agree but I could probably say the same thing about just playing TB without doing any side work...

it is when you get to 10u (hell our ref up to 8u was coach pitch) that rec really starts to fade as a learning resource for the girls wanting more. rec does great job (I was a rec coach from t ball through 10u ) introducing game, teaching girls fundamental throwing, catching, hitting, but once you get beyond very fundamental skills, most rec coaches cannot get the girls what they need if they want to advance. not for lack of trying, but simply lack of knowledge. and most parents do not know what is needed, buecasue they have not seen anything else.

I think there are too many teams, and travel is watered down, because of the my kid didnt make any TB team, I will start a new one. goes on in soccer as well. the governing bodies have got to do a better job of screening new teams (including looking to see if coach wanting to start new team had team in another governing body previously). and rec needs to find some way to coexist with travel, and up its game (maybe for every say 4 rec teams, one select team, that practices once a week together beyond rec practice, and plays semilocal tournaments, in addition to single AS team for say 12 teams, ie one girl from each team)