coachlisle: stop telling hitters to hit the outside pitch deep

[FiveFrameSwing]

I was typing when you wrote that.

It does not surprise me that a major leaguer can hit an inside pitch hard oppo off a tee.

I think CP's post is a good one and worth considering.

And I didn't even have to pay to open the secrets of Coach Lisles hitting vault!

And that is my point. Better, free advice here and most everybody here probably knows more than that dude!

FFS, THAT MEANS YOU TOO! IT'S A COMPLEMENT. I'M NOT ARGUING!

Three of my hitters also see Coach Lisles. Whether true or not, they tell me that what I teach is a lot like what he teaches ... with a few exceptions thrown in.

One of my issues in my earlier discussions with Coach Lisles was on the "L" versus "Vee" in the rear arm. They tell me that Coach Lisles now advocates the "Vee".

 

[chrispots]

One of my issues in my earlier discussions with Coach Lisles was on the "L" versus "Vee" in the rear arm. They tell me that Coach Lisles now advocates the "Vee".

I've been contemplating something regarding "hitting outside pitches deeper" for a while...and it pertains very much so to the "Vee"

This is me just thinking out loud...I'm sure this will end up on Richard's blog LOL (have at it Dick!)

Five - given your science and hitting background I'd love to hear your thoughts (as well as anyone else's)...

Thinking out loud in the hitting forums is a recipe for disaster so asbestos underwear is ON!

OK...here goes...

Telling a hitter to hitting an outside pitch deeper has never been a successful teaching cue for me...

If you go by the Jennie Finch pitching video and use the data they provide around the 4:25 mark - they state the batter has 350 milliseconds to react. So to tell a hitter to hit it deeper means they need to make a ~10 to ~20 milliseconds timing adjustment? Having reflexes like that are hard to fathom.



My thought is this: we simply hit it "deeper" because the radius of the swing is greater. The "circle" is larger therefore it takes a marginally longer time for the barrel to get to the out side of part of the plate. As the "vee's" angle increases it seems to me the bat path radius would also increase...

Of course the swing is not a circle...the swing moves in 3 dimensions not just 2 like an ellipse...but I think you understand what I am trying to infer...

I have no hard data to go by but the 3 way Posey clip would seem to back this up as well as this 4 clip comparison of Miggy...

I see the biggest difference in bat path "radius" in the 2 bottom clips

So is it possible that the distance\time relevance is the reason why we hit outside pitches deeper and inside pitches more out front?

I'd love to hear your thoughts...CP

 

[chrispots]

Like this...



and I apologize if this has been covered before...CP

 

[Greenmonsters]

I've been contemplating something regarding "hitting outside pitches deeper" for a while...and it pertains very much so to the "Vee"

This is me just thinking out loud...I'm sure this will end up on Richard's blog LOL (have at it Dick!)

Five - given your science and hitting background I'd love to hear your thoughts (as well as anyone else's)...

Thinking out loud in the hitting forums is a recipe for disaster so asbestos underwear is ON!

OK...here goes...

Telling a hitter to hitting an outside pitch deeper has never been a successful teaching cue for me...

If you go by the Jennie Finch pitching video and use the data they provide around the 4:25 mark - they state the batter has 350 milliseconds to react. So to tell a hitter to hit it deeper means they need to make a ~10 to ~20 milliseconds timing adjustment? Having reflexes like that are hard to fathom.



My thought is this: we simply hit it "deeper" because the radius of the swing is greater. The "circle" is larger therefore it takes a marginally longer time for the barrel to get to the out side of part of the plate. As the "vee's" angle increases it seems to me the bat path radius would also increase...

Of course the swing is not a circle...the swing moves in 3 dimensions not just 2 like an ellipse...but I think you understand what I am trying to infer...

I have no hard data to go by but the 3 way Posey clip would seem to back this up as well as this 4 clip comparison of Miggy...

I see the biggest difference in bat path "radius" in the 2 bottom clips

So is it possible that the distance\time relevance is the reason why we hit outside pitches deeper and inside pitches more out front?

I'd love to hear your thoughts...CP

The swing is actually shorter (distance from start to POC) and a hitter has more time (a few milliseconds) to hit an outside pitch because the POC is deeper than for an inside pitch. In other words, if you have time to catch up to an inside pitch, you have plenty of time to drive an outside pitch.

 

[straightleg]

Yes, this would be what Bustos refers to as her "Hitting Line". It is nonsense. Frequently taught ... but incorrect.

Is what you teach better than what Bustos does?






Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing
In some of my hitting sessions I’ll teach it this way ….. Baby Stretch, Extra Stretch, Turn the barrel against the Extra Stretch.

Step 1 …. Baby stretch.

As the COM is brought forward (preferably FbC)…. Either with a physical stride or without a stride, …. towards what is commonly referred to as the ‘launch position’, …… I’ll ask a hitter to focus on the ‘feel’ of a ‘baby stretch’. The ‘baby stretch’ is felt along the rear hip to rear shoulder. It will have the feel as if the muscles along the rearside have been somewhat elongated/stretched. This is the 'baby stretch'.


Step 2 …. Extra stretch.
From the ‘launch position’ the rear leg will in a sense turn inward. This creates the ‘Extra Stretch’ …. If you pause immediately after this, what 'was' the ‘baby stretch’ will become highly intensified. In a sense you have dynamically increased the 'stretch'.


Step3 …. Turn the barrel against the stretch.

As you turn the barrel against the ‘Extra Stretch’, the stretch will become even more intensified ... another dynamic building of the stretch. The barrel will in a sense be fired along its swing arc …. for some it is the feel of finding themselves able to get on balls that at first they couldn’t imagine getting to.


Baby Stretch .…. Extra Stretch ….. Turn the barrel against the Extra Stretch.

 

[chrispots]

The swing is actually shorter (distance from start to POC) and a hitter has more time (a few milliseconds) to hit an outside pitch because the POC is deeper than for an inside pitch. In other words, if you have time to catch up to an inside pitch, you have plenty of time to drive an outside pitch.

First, I'm not arguing...hell I stalk your posts LOL

If all things are equal including POC AND the only variable is "in" "middle" "outside" wouldn't the greater "bat arc" to a pitch outside require a greater amount of time to get to hence they are hitting it deeper?



I'm looking at this from a coaching perspective...CP

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Is what you teach better than what Bustos does?






Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing
In some of my hitting sessions I’ll teach it this way ….. Baby Stretch, Extra Stretch, Turn the barrel against the Extra Stretch.

Step 1 …. Baby stretch.

As the COM is brought forward (preferably FbC)…. Either with a physical stride or without a stride, …. towards what is commonly referred to as the ‘launch position’, …… I’ll ask a hitter to focus on the ‘feel’ of a ‘baby stretch’. The ‘baby stretch’ is felt along the rear hip to rear shoulder. It will have the feel as if the muscles along the rearside have been somewhat elongated/stretched. This is the 'baby stretch'.


Step 2 …. Extra stretch.
From the ‘launch position’ the rear leg will in a sense turn inward. This creates the ‘Extra Stretch’ …. If you pause immediately after this, what 'was' the ‘baby stretch’ will become highly intensified. In a sense you have dynamically increased the 'stretch'.


Step3 …. Turn the barrel against the stretch.

As you turn the barrel against the ‘Extra Stretch’, the stretch will become even more intensified ... another dynamic building of the stretch. The barrel will in a sense be fired along its swing arc …. for some it is the feel of finding themselves able to get on balls that at first they couldn’t imagine getting to.


Baby Stretch .…. Extra Stretch ….. Turn the barrel against the Extra Stretch.

Here's the rub SL .... I had a kid swinging with a Zepp the other day, and they found that by emphasizing the "extra stretch" that it appreciably increased their swing speed. Of course, as Bluedog pointed out to you earlier, the "baby stretch" is about not overdoing the stretch prior to that ..... because if you do, then you won't receive the benefits that the "extra stretch" can provide .... and they provide quite a bit.

Don't forget, when you get a chance you are going to tell us what is being instructed here that is confusing RDB.

Now I'm confused.....

I don't know why it is taking you so long. The dad of the girl below claims that a dad that lives near you, had a daughter that went to Howard for hitting lessons, and that the dad felt he learned enough from Howard to teach his daughter this below.

 

[mann]

Good to see you back Mann...I haven't seen you post in a while...



Inside - Out

Outside

Full clip is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQd95cNo24A

I only teach the deep outside pitch off the tee - never when there is timing involved for the concern of them being late...

I do have 2 questions though...



Are you talking about anticipating the point of "the collision" or anticipating the location of the pitch? If it is anticipating the pitch location before the pitch is thrown, I can't agree with that....I suppose you could guess but to me, that would be about as successful than a a soccer goalie anticipating the location of a penalty kick

Lastly, assuming Bustos' stride foot landed at the front of the plate, how many of these balls would be fair balls? How many would be hit on the sweet spot? I don't know the exact answer but maybe 1/3 of them? I thought maybe 5 or 6?

CP

I have watched a couple soccer games when the regulation ended, and they went to kicks. I swear the dudes were guessing.

Actually what I am thinking is that, when I swing I hope its outside and belt high and he cooperates, because I would like to go oppo. Adjustability, Timing, every swing is an adjustment, from moment your feet enter the box.


I think I can drive them all fair, from a tee.

More than a third I hope, because we will Practice a big zone, then tighten up.

7 balls are in the strike zone, 9 with two strikes.

great drill gifs, thanks

I will try it five.

 

[mann]

First, I'm not arguing...hell I stalk your posts LOL

If all things are equal including POC AND the only variable is "in" "middle" "outside" wouldn't the greater "bat arc" to a pitch outside require a greater amount of time to get to hence they are hitting it deeper?

View attachment 7534

I'm looking at this from a coaching perspective...CP

Bad picture CP

try the new high tec drawing.

 

[mann]

Like this...

View attachment 7533

and I apologize if this has been covered before...CP

He would not had to reach as far in the outside gif, if he let it come deeper. He Is, reaching with his body leaning forward.
These lines are also tricky because turning torso is hiding length, of the red lines in the first two.
w/r