10yo Maddie

[Buttermaker]

Thanks.

One note of mention

The hands pulling back should stretch the rear pectoral across the rear external oblique through the lead side internal oblique to the lead side adductors on the front leg. The hands pull back by using all 4 joints of the shoulder.

Buttermaker - Good stuff!! I will have to read it closer later to fully understand it, but I appreciate the input. Thanks!

 

[bullethead]

Good job. Very useful pics for the girls to look at

 

[tjintx]

When you see a hitter "fold" over the front hip going into contact and through contact - the hips are not functioning correctly because the glutes are not firing

.
Another key to unlocking the sequence. This was my main reason for starting the thread
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-hitting-technical/20374-bow-squat-ir-rear-hip-only-6.html
The lack of resistance between the hips(ie. folding over the front hip) is 1 legged. It leaves a valuable resource untapped.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Once the skin gets peeled back or the driver comes out I have a hard time following, but....

"Middle focus" as part of larger stretch and fire goals, IMO:

Create X factor stretch.
Don't counter-rotate the shoulders.

Some hitters do this naturally, others need a show-and-tell.

Assuming you are fwd-by-coiling, the resistance to counter-rotation of the shoulders will build the body-coil that I believe is being described.

But it is more than simple transverse resistance.

It is during the fwd-by-coil portion that a positive attack angle is generally created. See if you can feel this in the front-side oblique area and front-hip area …. What I believe Butter is attempting to describe with his cue of the front hip ‘feeling’ as if it was lower than the rear hip.

 

[Buttermaker]

Getting back the oblique slings - TDS made this clip from the Sports Science video I posted previously

Yes- I realize you have to have a leap of faith but if you want to see/feel it - the comp is a really good one.

The moment your front thigh starts to abduct - your hands via the shoulder joints I mentioned should be pulling back - this action helps create the stretch you see above.

 

[pstein]

I really don't understand why people keep trying to reconcile golf stuff with softball/baseball stuff.

One involves a moving ball. You have to be quick in softball/baseball. With golf, you can have as long a swing as you want.

 

[Buttermaker]

Ted Williams may have been onto something? Nah...PStein knows better.

Why did Ted Williams talk with Golfers?
Ben Hogan and Sam Sneed were amongst some golfers that Ted Williams talked with about how the golf swing and the baseball swing are alike. The conversations were not just a matter a fact, but they were some detailed and deep conversations that pinpointed some real secrets on how to hit a ball accurately, with distance, and with little effort.

Most of these conversations were unheard of back in the day and still would be totally dismissed even now. I learned to lookat these litle tidbits of information as possible secrets to something that could make a difference.

One of the top bits of information that Ted Williams, Ben Hogan, and Sam Sneed agreed upon was that the hips must clear first before the hands came down to strike the ball. They agreed that this promoted more club/bat whip at a more effortless pace.

The second bit of information that they shared was the use of the lead arm. Golfers of course like to have the arm straight throughout most of the swing and Ted Williams agreed that his lead arm was straight most of his swing. They agreed that this straightening of the arm allowed for the hips to slip into the swing first and promoted more bat whip.

This information would probably would be scoffed at by most professionals, but if the baseball world knew that this type of information was taking place between these types of people, maybe then they would take a second look. Personaly, when I found this information, I took it very seriously and eventually it became vital in my success as a hitting coach.

I really don't understand why people keep trying to reconcile golf stuff with softball/baseball stuff.

One involves a moving ball. You have to be quick in softball/baseball. With golf, you can have as long a swing as you want.

 

[pstein]

Okay, don't forget to externally rotate your rear foot and release the bb/a$$ stretch when you're trying to hit a 90 mph fastball.

 

[Buttermaker]

OK. Thanks for the input. You let me know when you start coaching a fastpitch team or give fastpitch hitting lessons and I will give you some helpful hints,

Okay, don't forget to externally rotate your rear foot and release the bb/a$$ stretch when you're trying to hit a 90 mph fastball.

 

[liththunder]

@TDS - I think they have somewhat similar core movements.. Hitter 1 has bigger movements.. I don't think he is purposely using his arms as you may think? I think for him, he does not maintain resistance or as said here have core tension long enough.. loses the resistance right away - that causes the the arms usage look.. Hitter 2, my guy maintains better resistance so he can fire his hands when he needs to.. Hitter 1 certainly struggles w/offspeed, my guy is much more adjustable - I've seen him sit many times on a breaking ball an lace it into the gaps.

Thunder, I think he uses his arms to support (swing around his body) because his rear leg is driving through. Hitter one IMO would have no chance at sitting off-speed due to the up front rear leg usage. If this was my student I would attempt to remove the focus from the rear leg usage in an attempt to fix the sequence from the middle which would allow the legs to be leveraged later in the sequence.



No one touched on the barrel path between the 2 swings.. isn't apparent that a non-barrel turn will not give you a desired barrel path compared to a barrel turn? Very apparent w/these 2 swings..

I think the barrel path would take care of it self if hitter one would sequence from the middle up-front .. Most kids bypass the release/relax phase which would free the hands to do what they need to. I would be willing to bet this kid has no feeling in his hands during the move out phase due to his sequence.

Can you show me someone that is applying it as you suggest? Not referencing an MLB'er.. someone that's specifically worked w/your instruction? I would and I'm sure others would like to see that.. maybe it will clear it up?? Or post your examples you sent? Until then, both sides are hear say when they reference MLB'ers or higher level hitters... since we all can say what we think they are doing.. I showed you two examples.. one that uses his hands (my son) and one that doesn't.. You and butter liked my sons core actions.. but yet there is a 100% guarantee he uses his hands to turn the barrel..