Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Well that's sad news. With my revised pick, I choose.......Barroid Bonds, as long as he promises not to compete wearing those google glasses
10yo Maddie
- Thread starter Eric F
- Start date
Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch
Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.
Well that's sad news. With my revised pick, I choose.......Barroid Bonds, as long as he promises not to compete wearing those google glasses
- Aug 30, 2013
- 140
- 16
@RHC - Thanks, appreciate that! Just for clarification, I do have Twins.. Twin1 is a teammate while Twin2 is mine.. He does have a very good HPP and turns the barrel very well - we changed to putting bat behind his neck and he's done well turning from there..Thunder twin 1 simple needs to tighten up his hand pivot point and turn the barrel like Thunder twin 2. Both look very nice Lith. Great job.
Ps…both are using their back and core very well. See how keeping the tighter hpp Twin 2 is much more "back" in his forward. More sudden. More RIGHT NOW.
@TDS - I think they have somewhat similar core movements.. Hitter 1 has bigger movements.. I don't think he is purposely using his arms as you may think? I think for him, he does not maintain resistance or as said here have core tension long enough.. loses the resistance right away - that causes the the arms usage look.. Hitter 2, my guy maintains better resistance so he can fire his hands when he needs to.. Hitter 1 certainly struggles w/offspeed, my guy is much more adjustable - I've seen him sit many times on a breaking ball an lace it into the gaps.
@Butter - You may say the core is what tipping.. others will say coil/pullbacks/resistance - don't really care what you call it.. either way, you need it to efficiently turn the barrel and turn it when you want.. IMO - I think hitter 2 is underway w/the barrel turn when the barrel is un-tipping back while there may be core relaxation as he is planting his front foot..
Now show your results.. You claim you can change a kid in a week.. lets see a before/after
@EricF/rdbass - I don't think you can just concentrate on one and not the other.. I believe you need both.. Which order you choose to learn?? That's the reason for the SnF drill - to combine the two together - getting the feeling of turning the barrel w/the coil/pullbacks/resistance. I do think the up-front actions - whether you call it core actions or coil do need to be taught, I see way too many kids that don't understand that action either..
No one touched on the barrel path between the 2 swings.. isn't apparent that a non-barrel turn will not give you a desired barrel path compared to a barrel turn? Very apparent w/these 2 swings..
Last edited:
- May 3, 2014
- 2,149
- 83
RHC,
My whole disagreement with rear leg emphasis is that it's hit or miss for a hitter developing a good sequence. You know I spent over a year on it and some of my hitters did well with it. But, overall I felt like something was missing having hitters only focus on the rear leg and posterior side of the body.
Pro hitters are constantly dealing with oblique injuries. So, they must be using more than just their rear leg and back.
I totally agree with rear hip pivot. But along with RHP - there needs to be an engagement of the core in the way of the lead side longitudinal and lateral sling systems anytime you transfer weight. Sorry, RHC but the QL muscle is vital to all of this. And it's the main muscle you are targeting to strengthen when you perform side planks - go ahead and try one and you will feel your QL shake/tremble. It's what helps give you total stability as you pick up and put down your stride foot. A strong stable core allows better overall movement.
And I don't disagree with the hands being important. A big part of the sequence is pulling back your hands as the stride foot starts forward. Untipping as a function of relaxing the initial core engagement prepares the hitter to do this. The relaxing core allows the torso to lead the swing by stretching the contralateral anterior and posterior oblique slings. As these slings are stretching - their opposites are contracting.
These pictures probably explain it.
Anterior sling
Posterior sling
My goal is to get hitters to use everything God gave them. Hitters that are 5-2 can be very productive gap/power hitters if they can use everything.
Hip function is huge part of the overall movement. You need to train the hips.
My whole disagreement with rear leg emphasis is that it's hit or miss for a hitter developing a good sequence. You know I spent over a year on it and some of my hitters did well with it. But, overall I felt like something was missing having hitters only focus on the rear leg and posterior side of the body.
Pro hitters are constantly dealing with oblique injuries. So, they must be using more than just their rear leg and back.
I totally agree with rear hip pivot. But along with RHP - there needs to be an engagement of the core in the way of the lead side longitudinal and lateral sling systems anytime you transfer weight. Sorry, RHC but the QL muscle is vital to all of this. And it's the main muscle you are targeting to strengthen when you perform side planks - go ahead and try one and you will feel your QL shake/tremble. It's what helps give you total stability as you pick up and put down your stride foot. A strong stable core allows better overall movement.
And I don't disagree with the hands being important. A big part of the sequence is pulling back your hands as the stride foot starts forward. Untipping as a function of relaxing the initial core engagement prepares the hitter to do this. The relaxing core allows the torso to lead the swing by stretching the contralateral anterior and posterior oblique slings. As these slings are stretching - their opposites are contracting.
These pictures probably explain it.
Anterior sling
Posterior sling
My goal is to get hitters to use everything God gave them. Hitters that are 5-2 can be very productive gap/power hitters if they can use everything.
Hip function is huge part of the overall movement. You need to train the hips.
Last edited:
RHC,
My whole disagreement with rear leg emphasis is that it's hit or miss for a hitter developing a good sequence. You know I spent over a year on it and some of my hitters did well with it. But, overall I felt like something was missing having hitters only focus on the rear leg and posterior side of the body.
Pro hitters are constantly dealing with oblique injuries. So, they must be using more than just their rear leg and back.
I totally agree with rear hip pivot. But along with RHP - there needs to be an engagement of the core in the way of the lead side longitudinal and lateral sling systems anytime you transfer weight. Sorry, RHC but the QL muscle is vital to all of this. And it's the main muscle you are targeting to strengthen when you perform side planks - go ahead and try one and you will feel your QL shake/tremble. It's what helps give you total stability as you pick up and put down your stride foot. A strong stable core allows better overall movement.
And I don't disagree with the hands being important. A big part of the sequence is pulling back your hands as the stride foot starts forward. Untipping as a function of relaxing the initial core engagement prepares the hitter to do this. The relaxing core allows the torso to lead the swing by stretching the contralateral anterior and posterior oblique slings. As these slings are stretching - their opposites are contracting.
These pictures probably explain it.
Anterior sling
Posterior sling
My goal is to get hitters to use everything God gave them. Hitters that are 5-2 can be very productive gap/power hitters if they can use everything.
Hip function is huge part of the overall movement. You need to train the hips.
Once the skin gets peeled back or the driver comes out I have a hard time following, but....
"Middle focus" as part of larger stretch and fire goals, IMO:
Create X factor stretch.
Don't counter-rotate the shoulders.
Some hitters do this naturally, others need a show-and-tell.
- May 3, 2014
- 2,149
- 83
Hi Rich,
X factor stretch is not quite it. Puts too much stress on spine. X factor is about turning the upper torso (thoracic spine) as far as possible while holding pelvis (lumbar spine) in place
As part of rear hip pivot - pelvis needs to be allowed to turn back with upper torso - the sling muscles are what get stretched.
Golf - more turning
BB/SB Swing - less turning
Both use oblique sling systems to generate swing speed.
X factor stretch is not quite it. Puts too much stress on spine. X factor is about turning the upper torso (thoracic spine) as far as possible while holding pelvis (lumbar spine) in place
As part of rear hip pivot - pelvis needs to be allowed to turn back with upper torso - the sling muscles are what get stretched.
Golf - more turning
BB/SB Swing - less turning
Both use oblique sling systems to generate swing speed.
redhotcoach
Out on good behavior
- May 8, 2009
- 4,698
- 38
Super busy today, just wanted to say thanks for the discussion.
- May 3, 2014
- 2,149
- 83
Aside from the core. Leveraging the sling systems adds more oomph. Also, training the hips. Most of us have a certain degree of hip dysfunction due to sitting for long periods (classrooms, couch, car, buses) - the hips settle into a state of "hyper flexion". Meaning that the hamstrings start tightening up and start being used for the little hip extension we do instead of the glutes.
And what this does is turn off one of the biggest muscle groups in your body (glutes) which are a part of the aforementioned sling systems as well as being part of the core.
When you see a hitter "fold" over the front hip going into contact and through contact - the hips are not functioning correctly because the glutes are not firing.
A good exercise to get started is laying in the prone position (belly to the floor) and alternate raising your leg off the ground about 3-5 inches. Slowly. A partner can feel if the hamstring is lifting the leg or the glute. The glute should be but 9.5/10 times the person's hamstring does it. At the same time - if the hamstring is contracting to raise the leg - the same side QL will activate. What should be happening is the glute should contract to raise the leg and at the same time the contralateral side (opposite) QL should activate.
Training the core leads to better hip function because you need the glutes to be active.
Studies have shown that anytime a person has a lower body injury - the glutes shut down to allow the injury to heal. The problem is the glutes need to be re trained to turn back on. Ankle, knee, muscles pulls will lead to glute inactivation.
And what this does is turn off one of the biggest muscle groups in your body (glutes) which are a part of the aforementioned sling systems as well as being part of the core.
When you see a hitter "fold" over the front hip going into contact and through contact - the hips are not functioning correctly because the glutes are not firing.
A good exercise to get started is laying in the prone position (belly to the floor) and alternate raising your leg off the ground about 3-5 inches. Slowly. A partner can feel if the hamstring is lifting the leg or the glute. The glute should be but 9.5/10 times the person's hamstring does it. At the same time - if the hamstring is contracting to raise the leg - the same side QL will activate. What should be happening is the glute should contract to raise the leg and at the same time the contralateral side (opposite) QL should activate.
Training the core leads to better hip function because you need the glutes to be active.
Studies have shown that anytime a person has a lower body injury - the glutes shut down to allow the injury to heal. The problem is the glutes need to be re trained to turn back on. Ankle, knee, muscles pulls will lead to glute inactivation.
5'3''ish.....
Well I do tell 'smallish' DD she needs to get everything into her swings. Needs to use her whole body.
Please continue...
Buttermaker - Good stuff!! I will have to read it closer later to fully understand it, but I appreciate the input. Thanks!
RHC,
My whole disagreement with rear leg emphasis is that it's hit or miss for a hitter developing a good sequence. You know I spent over a year on it and some of my hitters did well with it. But, overall I felt like something was missing having hitters only focus on the rear leg and posterior side of the body.
Pro hitters are constantly dealing with oblique injuries. So, they must be using more than just their rear leg and back.
I totally agree with rear hip pivot. But along with RHP - there needs to be an engagement of the core in the way of the lead side longitudinal and lateral sling systems anytime you transfer weight. Sorry, RHC but the QL muscle is vital to all of this. And it's the main muscle you are targeting to strengthen when you perform side planks - go ahead and try one and you will feel your QL shake/tremble. It's what helps give you total stability as you pick up and put down your stride foot. A strong stable core allows better overall movement.
And I don't disagree with the hands being important. A big part of the sequence is pulling back your hands as the stride foot starts forward. Untipping as a function of relaxing the initial core engagement prepares the hitter to do this. The relaxing core allows the torso to lead the swing by stretching the contralateral anterior and posterior oblique slings. As these slings are stretching - their opposites are contracting.
These pictures probably explain it.
Anterior sling
Posterior sling
My goal is to get hitters to use everything God gave them. Hitters that are 5-2 can be very productive gap/power hitters if they can use everything.
Hip function is huge part of the overall movement. You need to train the hips.
@TDS - I think they have somewhat similar core movements.. Hitter 1 has bigger movements.. I don't think he is purposely using his arms as you may think? I think for him, he does not maintain resistance or as said here have core tension long enough.. loses the resistance right away - that causes the the arms usage look.. Hitter 2, my guy maintains better resistance so he can fire his hands when he needs to.. Hitter 1 certainly struggles w/offspeed, my guy is much more adjustable - I've seen him sit many times on a breaking ball an lace it into the gaps.
Thunder, I think he uses his arms to support (swing around his body) because his rear leg is driving through. Hitter one IMO would have no chance at sitting off-speed due to the up front rear leg usage. If this was my student I would attempt to remove the focus from the rear leg usage in an attempt to fix the sequence from the middle which would allow the legs to be leveraged later in the sequence.
No one touched on the barrel path between the 2 swings.. isn't apparent that a non-barrel turn will not give you a desired barrel path compared to a barrel turn? Very apparent w/these 2 swings..
I think the barrel path would take care of it self if hitter one would sequence from the middle up-front .. Most kids bypass the release/relax phase which would free the hands to do what they need to. I would be willing to bet this kid has no feeling in his hands during the move out phase due to his sequence.
Thunder, I think he uses his arms to support (swing around his body) because his rear leg is driving through. Hitter one IMO would have no chance at sitting off-speed due to the up front rear leg usage. If this was my student I would attempt to remove the focus from the rear leg usage in an attempt to fix the sequence from the middle which would allow the legs to be leveraged later in the sequence.
No one touched on the barrel path between the 2 swings.. isn't apparent that a non-barrel turn will not give you a desired barrel path compared to a barrel turn? Very apparent w/these 2 swings..
I think the barrel path would take care of it self if hitter one would sequence from the middle up-front .. Most kids bypass the release/relax phase which would free the hands to do what they need to. I would be willing to bet this kid has no feeling in his hands during the move out phase due to his sequence.
Last edited:
