How do you throw a RISEBALL?

[FiveFrameSwing]

It certainly isn't common to see a true back-spin riseball in woman's fastpitch at the college level and lower.

Haven put a radar gun on several pitchers, I've found that a large number of them have a 6mph delta between their riseball and their fastball/dropball. That said ... I believe many inhibit the speed of their riseball because of a false impression of what they should be doing.

It should be possible, and in fact is possible, to have the riseball thrown at nearly the same speed as one's fastest pitch. That said, that would be extremely rare for someone of Ihowser's daughter's age. Much more common is to see a 6mph speed degradation for someone in that age category. Often when you obtain a nearly identical radar reading for a riseball & dropball in this age category it turns out that they are throwing the same pitch with a different initial trajectory.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

My DD throws her rise at 67-68 mph. I guess if she were to throw the bulletspin Wunderpitch that FFS is so fond of she would bring 73-74mph. I think not. I have seen some kids at the 14U level throwing decent riseballs in the low to mid-50's that are very effective pitches. Especially in bunt situations where they get quite a few pop-ups.

I plotted the profile of a 68mph bullet-spin riseball above. Much like Sarah Pauly's riseball, it drops slightly prior to reaching the catcher's mitt.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

My DD throws her rise at 67-68 mph. I guess if she were to throw the bulletspin Wunderpitch that FFS is so fond of she would bring 73-74mph. I think not. I have seen some kids at the 14U level throwing decent riseballs in the low to mid-50's that are very effective pitches. Especially in bunt situations where they get quite a few pop-ups.

FYI .... what I am fond of is "reality".

Reality is that many pitchers throw a pitch with a high degree of bullet-spin when they throw their riseball.

 

[riseball]

The "reality" is that my DD has not racked up 183K's this season throwing a pitch that does not move. Yes, there are a bunch of pitchers throwing the Wunderpitch, but the vast majority of are getting hammered. The "reality" is that the best riseball pitchers in the game do not throw bulletspin.

 

[Balls]

FYI .... what I am fond of is "reality".

Reality is that many pitchers throw a pitch with a high degree of bullet-spin when they throw their riseball.

FFS you are probably right here.
I have seen many pitchers throw bullet spin and call it their rise but the reality is its not a rise ball.
Think of some one throwing bullet spin low in the zone and refering to it as a drop ball. Any trained eye will pick that its not.
From my point of view the extra time taken to perfect the pitch is well worth the extra effort and it does take time to get right.
That doesn't mean that a bullet spin pitch won't catch batters out more so when thrown at higher velocity, IMO it just doesn't catch out the quality batters especially for someone like myself who is down on speed compared to the better chuckers.

 

[riseball]

Granted that most pitchers attempt to throw a riseball and end up with bulletspin. However, most pitchers even at the "D1-level" do not have great movement and an effective change up. I guess it comes down to if you want be like most pitchers or if you want to excel.

 

[lhowser]

Whip the fingertips under the ball.

Edit to add: Can she throw a good, flat spinning, palm up curve? If so, turn that curve on it's side.

I was thinking about this as well. After watching Sarah's rise there are some similarities to the palm up curve which we already fiddle with.

Len, we will make sure to have DD throw it to you guys if we play you at Mapleleaf...lol.

Just great! A spy knowing what I am working on! See you this spring/summer

Good input all the way around. We are going to fool with a few things Tuesday. Maybe just throw it like a fastball except make sure all the knuckles are down (facing parallel to the ground) as long as possible.

 

[coach james]

Many ways to skin the cat here!
Bottom line is:
Did you get tight spinning backspin?
Was it released at a low to high trajectory?
Was the speed at an approx. minimum of 50mph?
If you can answer yes to all three questions, then you have met the basic criteria for a rise ball. This takes thousands of reps to get right, practice hard and often with up most attention to detail.

 

[Rick Pauly]

Two quick comments:
Speed is a definite factor in the performance of a riseball....faster is better. Throwing speed out of the discussion, here are my two other comments:

Posture is about 10-15% of the reason for effectiveness. Best to have about 7-8 degrees spine tilt at time of release....this helps with throwing an upward trajectory (lowers the release point).
The action of the wrist/fingers is about 85-90% of the reason for effectiveness. I would be careful with the idea of "releasing later". My video analysis of elite pitchers shows that the release happens in nearly the same place as other pitches (assuming DD gets brush interference)....let the posture and wrist/fingers do the work.

How do you throw a RISEBALL?

13U daughter is pretty good. Good velocity in the low/mid 50's. Good control. Command of both sides of plate. Nice change and effective drop. Ready for...THE RISE.

From those who have succeeded teaching and throwing the rise how do you throw it. We've heard turning a door knob and screwing in a light but that does not seem to match the recent slo-mo posted here on DFP. I don't want to lead her down the wrong path with techniques that are not true even though a lot of people my say them (In other words i do not want the equivalent to Hello Elbow on the RISE).

How do you communicate the spin? In Sara Pauly clip in the RISEBALL SPIN thread she is not unscrewing a light bulb or turning a knob. She is internally rotating her wrist and removing all fingers from the ball except the index which gets the last push.

How much is posture and releasing later.

Would appreciate any help. It is the pitch she needs -

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I guess you shouldn't start anything unless you are perfect already on everything to that point, and the thing you are trying to do is perfect on the first try, too. Come to my D1, or my mid majors and you will see rises with good back spin. Stop going on what you want to believe from one bad pitch or video on the internet and actually go to a variety of games. I still don't get the need to criticize everything as awful. If we have good rises here, people certainly have it elsewhere.

You can create whip in any direction at a high rate of speed. If you look at NFCA camp data the 8 mph difference is not there, and that would only be when comparing to a drop, not a flat fastball.

Here's the rub .... I travel across the country and watch a lot of softball games .... and the data that I collect shows riseballs thrown with a hefty amount of bullet-spin.

Regarding your last comment of a "flat fastball" ..... can you show a profile view of such a pitch? I don't think you can.