Drive Mechanics

[knightsb]

2008 ASA Rules:
I. (Women’s and all JO play) In the act of delivering the ball, the pitcher must
take one step with the non-pivot foot simultaneous with the release of the
ball. The step must be forward and toward the batter within the 24-inch length
of the pitcher’s plate. It is not a step if the pitcher slides the pivot foot across
the pitcher’s plate toward the batter, or if the pivot foot turns or slides in order
to push off the pitcher’s plate, provided contact is maintained with the plate.
Raising the foot off the pitching plate and returning it to the plate creates a
rocking motion and is an illegal act
J. Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher’s plate is
illegal.
K. (Women’s and all JO Play) Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact
with the ground is required. If a hole has been created, the pivot foot may
drag no higher than the level plane of the ground.


2013 USSSA Rules:
E. The Pitch:
1. The pitch begins and cannot be discontinued when one hand is taken
off the ball or the pitcher makes any motion that is part of the
windup after the hands have been brought together.
2. During the delivery, the pitcher shall take exactly one forward step
toward home plate and land within or partially within the 24-inch
length of the pitcher’s plate.
No step backward is allowed.
3. The pivot foot may remain in contact with or may push off and drag
away from the pitching plate prior to the front foot touching the
ground, as long as the pivot foot remains in contact with the ground.
Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher’s
plate is illegal.
NOTE 1: It is not a step if the pitcher slides his foot in any direction
on the pitcher’s plate, provided contact is maintained.
NOTE 2: Techniques such as the “crow hop” and “the leap” are
illegal.

Edit: 2008 ASA is all I have electronically for copy/paste. If anyone has a newer ASA electronic version let me know

 

[CoachScott]

Very good post the ruling take the guess work out.

Well Done, sir!

 

[fastpitchdad8]

GS, I beleive JS's point is, if Cat were pitching with a plate under her foot, she can legally reposition her foot on the plate during the course of the pitch. Without a plate in the above clip it may be hard to see, but one could imagine being able to take a short step forward as long as the foot remains in contact with the pitcher's plate. Why do this? 1) To give the feel of the sudden transfer of weight from the stride foot to the pivot foot. 2) To give the pitcher the feel of a running start. I think many times when people freak out about the skip step, it is not valid because the heel of the pivot foot is still in contact with the pitchers plate, or (and this may be the controversial part), the pivot foot is still in the plain (think of the NFL and the nose of the football crossing the imaginary end zone plain) of the pitchers plate, even if the heel has been lifted off.

the 3rd pic down is post 155 is definitely illegal..no?

Awesome thread guys..keep it coming. Very much looking forward to the conditioning thread also!

 

[knightsb]

the 3rd pic down is post 155 is definitely illegal..no?

Awesome thread guys..keep it coming. Very much looking forward to the conditioning thread also!

Started a new thread so we don't hijack this one...

 

[JJsqueeze]

I am more concerned with the mechanics of the drive than I am with the adherence to the rule about both feet being on the plate ( a rule that I am anticipating will be changed at some point anyway since it is rarely if ever enforced-meaning I have seen it a billion times and seen it called rarely). I am guessing that if they learn the correct loading and weight transfer then if they have a little gym step they can correct it on the fly pretty easily. My DD has a little gym step but she seems to be able to correct it with no problem when she notices it. She's probably done it about a million times in a game and she got called for it once, made the adjustment and it didn't affect her.

 

[javasource]

Just for the sake of conversation... not argument... and as this subject definitely relates to Drive Mechanics, I don't feel as any of you have derailed this thread. Be warned... the following is an attempt at self-therapy for all the years I've been involved in softball...

I've never understood the non-umpire obsession in illegal pitches that you hear emanating from the sidelines in games. Admittedly, when I first started coaching... I'd look for it... and mumble under my breath how atrocious it was... But the more I learned about the game and pitching... it occurred to me that very few, if any instances of illegal pitches (that actually happen in games) create any advantage (that's measurable) for the guilty party. A leap adds nothing. Pushing three inches in front of the plate is not a measurable difference. Crow hops... although some swear they are the worst thing imaginable... have been scientifically measured as no more effective... the staggered high school start with one foot behind isn't going to 'change a pitcher', striding outside of the 24" plane isn't going to overwhelm the opponent... and on and on...

I find that the only advantage they create is when the team that is pointing the finger gets so obsessed over it... that they mentally take themselves out of the game because they can't stop whining about it. Well taught pitchers can make minor corrections in games... in lieu of an umpire that has a 'keen eye'... and not be effected. Conversely, as a coach... I know what the 'overreaction' on the sidelines is doing to that DD... and the embarrassment it's causing her... and the effort it creates for me... to mentally keep her in the game.

Another scary reality is that 'illegal' pitching happens in nearly every game... with nearly every pitcher. If you really watch the drag foot, the replants, the staggered starts, the less than 1 second presentations, etc... it happens in nearly every game. Furthermore, there are so many variables in play with field conditions...

By the rules... illegal pitches are not the responsibility of a parent, coach, or fanatic (lunatic fan).

An illegal pitch is a judgement call made by an official... Take a look at ASA Rule 9, Section 2A.4... which states: Protests will not be considered if based solely on a decision involving the accuracy of judgement on the part of an umpire. (A) Examples of protests which will not be considered are: (4) Whether there is a legal or illegal pitch.

All this said... again... I agree that pitching should be learned... and taught... within the rules of the game. Sadly, those that patrol the sidelines and scream in agony over the teenage girl on the mound performing an illegal pitch - don't fully appreciate that there is no advantage (measurable) in the illegal action she is performing. Even worse... when these martyr's do get their way... and influence the umpires decisions... all they are doing is getting in the way of the athletes that are trying to compete (i.e. the players on the field). So... you have to wonder... what's the motivation for being a "rules hitler" on the sidelines? Is it to belittle the competition into playing poorly? Is your team that desperate... that they need to look outside of their own abilities to compete?

I remember introducing the third strike rule in a rec league... and allowing stealing of all bases... and removing pitching machines from the game play... Holy smokes... I received so much hate mail... it was unbelievable. It occurred to me shortly after... that the PARENTS depended on those limitations... the crappy COACHES depended on those limitations... and the PLAYERS were developmentally held back because of them. The drop third required that you develop a catcher... heaven forbid. Allowing stealing meant that the entire defense had to function as a team, learn cut-off assignments, learn to back-up throws... in essence learn to play the game properly... OH NO!!!! No pitching machines meant that we actually had to develop pitchers... which the kids loved - but the parents objected furiously... as it must have required that they sit on a bucket in their back yard and spend some time with their children... THE MISERY!!!

The point in all of this... is that in the biggest problem with illegal pitches are not as much the players performing them... as they are the absolutely hysterical and looney people NOT playing the game. If a girl is throwing the ball illegally... our focus should not be on accusation and chastising them... it should be on focusing on what is in our control... and if that pitcher is your DD... you owe it to her to show her the correct way. If it's an opponents pitcher... get over yourself... look to your sidelines... and provide the encouragement and support that your DD is depending on. Come to terms with the fact that you have no control of this matter... your just going to have to put your faith in another person... whose job it is to uphold the rules of the game... the umpire. That doesn't always work out... I do understand that's not always a comforting feeling. However... consider Monica's mini-step forward that knightsb posted... that is unbelievably illegal (OMG!!!) Is that really the reason your team lost?

Again... just letting of a little steam... Not intending to start a debate or arguments. But, if you do decide to chide in with a retort... please back it up with empirical evidence of the advantage an illegal pitch actually creates... as I am incredibly well-read and would genuinely appreciate the addition of factual evidence in my library.

Lastly, I do not support, teach, or encourage illegal pitching. Pitchers I work with know and pitch within the rules of the game. Pitchers I work with are also mentally strong... so that if some crazy glue-sniffing parent is sprinting up a down the sidelines in hysteria... or an umpire with coke-bottle glasses is catching the daylight under her shoes... they can adjust and continue to be effective.

LOL... seriously... don't take this response to heart. I feel better now... no more couch sessions... I've let it all out... lol

 

[Doug Romrell]

I'm sorry, I will only respond to those that are in my circle of trust...

This is such a good graphic!

 

[FP26]

I've never understood the non-umpire obsession in illegal pitches that you hear emanating from the sidelines in games. Admittedly, when I first started coaching... I'd look for it... and mumble under my breath how atrocious it was... But the more I learned about the game and pitching... it occurred to me that very few, if any instances of illegal pitches (that actually happen in games) create any advantage (that's measurable) for the guilty party. A leap adds nothing. Pushing three inches in front of the plate is not a measurable difference. Crow hops... although some swear they are the worst thing imaginable... have been scientifically measured as no more effective... the staggered high school start with one foot behind isn't going to 'change a pitcher', striding outside of the 24" plane isn't going to overwhelm the opponent... and on and on...

for what it is worth I agree with you completely and it is one of my pet peeves as well. In my opinion it happens because of three things. First, the pitcher is typically the focal point of the game. She is the only player that touches the ball on every single play. Second, very few parents truly understand the pitching rules. Third, and most importantly, many people simply have trouble believing someone can be better without cheating in some way. Add these together and you get complaints about illegal pitches.

 

[3DD'sDAD]

Java I have a question. The load on the stride foot is at its maximum when the back swing reaches the "top" (tob). Ok. My question is, what if the pitcher doesn't "back swing" in her pre-motion? Hill house for example does not advocate a pronouncde back swing for various reasons, so what would be the optimal point of load for a pitcher that draws both hands back together to about the back hip and begins the sequence forward from there? I may have just answered my question. Your thoughts?

 

[javasource]

The single pump that BH advocates, prevents the ball from making more than 360 degrees of movement around the circle... it makes a single circle...hence the name...

The double pump has the distance travelled by the ball exceeding 360-degrees... one might think that it's two circles or two arms... but it's what we refer to as a backswing. It can be one or both arms (like finch)...

Watch the upper arm on a single pump... and compare this angle to the upper arm on a double pump. They are usually close to identical. The single pump gives the appearance of less of a backswing because of the angle in the elbow... this bend keeps the ball to the pitchers side... the higher the upper arm goes, the greater the bend. Does that make sense?

The delay in getting the circle started forward... and the transfer of weight is pitcher specific... and depends on the time it takes the pitcher to get over the top and/or post on her stride leg. Timing is something we will cover towards the end of this thread in detail... let me know if you still have questions...

Lastly... I just remembered a pitcher years ago... young girl, and very introspective... While talking backswings with her, she said, "The two windups are kind of like the difference between a rocker -start and a sprinter start..." It's not the perfect analogy... but the deduction this 9yo girl made always stuck with me...