redhotcoach
Out on good behavior
- May 8, 2009
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- 38
Sequence....
When to start the load.
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redhotcoach
Out on good behavior
- May 8, 2009
- 4,704
- 38
Never mind. I was just trying to see if I felt smarter by giving vague explanations. Didn't work.
"I used to start when the pitcher would let go of the ball," Bautista says. "His position would be like this" -- he freezes his arm at a 90-degree angle, his wrist next to his ear -- "and the ball would come out of his hand and I'd just be late. When the pitcher takes the ball out of his glove [now], I'm moving. I've got all this time to load. My top hand moves at the same rate as the pitcher is cocking his arm."
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- Aug 28, 2012
- 457
- 0
Yup... The hitters in the pattern and sequence thread pretty much confirms that they are all moving with the pitcher in their own way prior to pitcher release. Not many that I can think of off the top of my head stand still and wait till release to "start". They move with the pitcher so they are on time and in position to start their sequence around pitcher release. The sequence is the commonality amongst the best hitters. Some has been written here and much more at BBD, just start in the "intro for new members" thread. There is nothing vague about it, I'm just not going to retype it all here on my phone 
- Aug 28, 2012
- 457
- 0
frames 0-18ish: Gathering, Dancing, timing the pitcher to get to starting position for sequence on time. Pattern. Not loading in any sense that gets unloaded later. It's about getting in position at or near pitcher release to sequence from there, timing the ball in flight, adjusting to the ball in flight.
frames 18ish-24ish: coiling. Still not loading. Arms/hand/upper primarily reacting to the coiling.
frames 24ish-28ish: loading (still coiling - rear leg still driving / rear hip on up still resisting). Loading into what becomes....
frames 28ish-32ish: launching
coiling - loading - launching.
That's the sequence (I won't argue if you want to shift a frame one way or the other but for me that's a general breakdown of the framework of Sequence). Broken down into phases for the purposes of discussion and identification and learning and dissection.
Get in sequence and avoid introducing actions that prevent the sequence from flowing as one move (i.e. stride to to touch... then do something. Load early... then what?)
Love to discuss with anyone who has an interest for or against such a view... find the "model" that invalidates the above. I didn't "invent" sequence and I certainly am not selling it so have at it I am aware of a semantic issue in that "loading" is often used to mean the gather, especially in models that promote a load back to explode forward type action, so in that sense co-opting the same word as part of my discussion about sequence is probably a mistake. Some have used "stretch" as in coil-stretch-separate for a similar phase of the sequence. After hearing talk/discussion of "loading into the unload", "loading to swing", and putting the "loading" after the "coiling" (adding coiling to the Go A drill where one starts relaxed and doesn't load the upper till ball in flight type action) it just made sense to me to view the sequence as "coiling-loading-launching".
So, if nothing else at least there is an alternate framework by which to validate your model against
Cheers,
NoonTime
frames 18ish-24ish: coiling. Still not loading. Arms/hand/upper primarily reacting to the coiling.
frames 24ish-28ish: loading (still coiling - rear leg still driving / rear hip on up still resisting). Loading into what becomes....
frames 28ish-32ish: launching
coiling - loading - launching.
That's the sequence (I won't argue if you want to shift a frame one way or the other but for me that's a general breakdown of the framework of Sequence). Broken down into phases for the purposes of discussion and identification and learning and dissection.
Get in sequence and avoid introducing actions that prevent the sequence from flowing as one move (i.e. stride to to touch... then do something. Load early... then what?)
Love to discuss with anyone who has an interest for or against such a view... find the "model" that invalidates the above. I didn't "invent" sequence and I certainly am not selling it so have at it
I am aware of a semantic issue in that "loading" is often used to mean the gather, especially in models that promote a load back to explode forward type action, so in that sense co-opting the same word as part of my discussion about sequence is probably a mistake. Some have used "stretch" as in coil-stretch-separate for a similar phase of the sequence. After hearing talk/discussion of "loading into the unload", "loading to swing", and putting the "loading" after the "coiling" (adding coiling to the Go A drill where one starts relaxed and doesn't load the upper till ball in flight type action) it just made sense to me to view the sequence as "coiling-loading-launching".So, if nothing else at least there is an alternate framework by which to validate your model against
Cheers,
NoonTime
- Aug 28, 2012
- 457
- 0
Oh that was about the Bautista clip... frame count from quicktime
Added my thanks...great stuff. It may be semantics, or maybe I don't have it right, but to me the bat is active, then he is cocking the bat, and that ends right at 18 (or 19). The barrel stops moving, and the hands begin moving. Even though not by much, they do move, and continue to move until what you identify as the launch. To me that is loading but maybe just quibbling over terminology.
Noon for the record you brought up Bautista. I was talking in general of what a hitter may due.
"I used to start when the pitcher would let go of the ball," Bautista says. "His position would be like this" -- he freezes his arm at a 90-degree angle, his wrist next to his ear -- "and the ball would come out of his hand and I'd just be late. When the pitcher takes the ball out of his glove [now], I'm moving. I've got all this time to load. My top hand moves at the same rate as the pitcher is cocking his arm."
Seems he did say load here.
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Without quibbling over terminology, what would we talk about?
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