Rose olored Glasses and The Elephant in the Room

[softballphreak]

Howard and Bustos have put many people into college with scholarships, and I'm never going to take that away from them. It's not about the money or "who puts the most kids into college," at least to me. It's about mechanics.

I'm not interested in talking about money and results. I'm interested in talking about mechanics. There's one high level swing with an infinite number of styles.

It wouldn't be very surprising to me if Bustos was very capable of hitting MLB pitchers. I wonder if she has ever had that opportunity?

 

[knightsb]

If you don't pitch with optimal mechanics or if you don't hit with optimal mechanics then you place a ceiling or limit as to how good you can become. Sure you can be successful with something less, but you will never reach your potential. DD has HS teammates with horrible swings, by anyone's standards, that have decent batting averages. Should they be content with the decent BA or strive for a higher level? I think that is why there is so much passion around this topic as we are all looking for the best possible mechanics and how to teach them to our DDs.

 

[tjintx]

RichK - I'm in agreement with what the results of this goal will be. However, I would not give the responsibility of detailing or even begrudgingly acknowledge what may exist as complementary ground between the two approaches to any of the loggerheads.

Obviously what you've identified is a better way, but at this time the ulterior motive to be declared the winner of the debate is too powerful an agent to trust that job (finding complementary ground between the two approaches) to any other than ourselves.

What you have done is what we all must do(find the complementary ground if any exist). I don't count that as an unfortunate thing.

Truth be told, it is what the loggerheads have done to reach their own level of understanding.

In full disclosure, between Howe(1chapterahead) and Richard, I'm in the H.I. camp (Richard). I'm there because I see him going into his lab, and experimenting, with trial and error, motivated to understand and duplicate what the MLB elite hitters do, as verified with video, all the while focusing on that alone and then just give it away to those who want it.

I know. What we see on H.I.'s blog is the raging battle. But even on that public side, if you look with a fair eye, you will see embeded there for all to see, the result of his lab work.

It would be good to experience 1chapterahead's (Howe), ideas on hitting, absent the all consuming motivation to counter all things H.I.(and God help you if you're a member there).

You know, like posting his hitting philosophy as though H.I. doesn't exist.

I don't believe he will, but I refuse to believe he can't.

JMHO.

Isn't it Rich that says the way he teaches is the way it should be and there is no "frankensteining" what he teaches with any other teaching methods? Maybe they both need to give some ground in that area

While your naming names how bout putting aliases to rest on these 2.
Project
Grandpa
Lets pull back the curtain on these new accounts and see who is really making the arguments
I'm pretty sure you wont give up 1 of them if its Rich but why not the other

 

[The Project]

Isn't it Rich that says the way he teaches is the way it should be and there is no "frankensteining" what he teaches with any other teaching methods? Maybe they both need to give some ground in that area

While your naming names how bout putting aliases to rest on these 2.
Project
Grandpa
Lets pull back the curtain on these new accounts and see who is really making the arguments
I'm pretty sure you wont give up 1 of them if its Rich but why not the other

I can assure you I'm not TM. Although, I am from MO, just a different part. As I've stated before, I'm nobody but a dad with a beautiful daughter who means everything in this world to me and I'd do anything for. She wants to be the best at what she does and we have a deal, I do all of the studying and research and then we both put in the time hitting, which we do night after night after night. If she fails because I have chosen the wrong path then so be it, she'll fail with me by her side.

Name's Scott BTW.

 

[Cannonball]

pstein, how do you know about any swings. Seeing them on TV and with the coverage softball gets even a high levels does not include enough opportunities to know what is out there. You admit that you have not attended games as well. Please, take some time to go and watch some of these teams in person. You'll have a great time and see the level you are critical of.

You point out that the MLB high level swing is not out of normal comprehension and yet, you also say that up to 85% of MLB Players don't have that swing. Interesting take on that when the best can't do it with the exception of 15%. Again, 85% of the players in MLB can't do it and yet you/others can.

 

[pstein]

It wouldn't be very surprising to me if Bustos was very capable of hitting MLB pitchers. I wonder if she has ever had that opportunity?

Bustos would be able to hit MLB pitching. It may be a bit tougher for her at first, but she has exceptional mechanics. Jen Yee would be able to do so as well, and so would the girl from Alabama (Whitney Larson?).

 

[pstein]

pstein, how do you know about any swings. Seeing them on TV and with the coverage softball gets even a high levels does not include enough opportunities to know what is out there. You admit that you have not attended games as well. Please, take some time to go and watch some of these teams in person. You'll have a great time and see the level you are critical of.

You point out that the MLB high level swing is not out of normal comprehension and yet, you also say that up to 85% of MLB Players don't have that swing. Interesting take on that when the best can't do it with the exception of 15%. Again, 85% of the players in MLB can't do it and yet you/others can.

85% of players don't have the swing because they don't stumble upon it. Most people who develop it do so by accident. Bautista developed the swing by sheer accident. There's no legitimate reason as to why his swing should've changed from as bad as it was to as good as it is. Ever wonder why so many "sure bet" prospects fail, yet guys drafted late can end up as good MLB players? It's a matter of not being screwed with and having it coached out of you. Prospects get 2000 or so ABs in the minors and try to figure it out, all while being given horrible instruction. Most fail, but a handful succeed. DMac once made a great point along the lines of "once you're drafted, your swing doesn't change."

How do I know about swings? I have clips, and I've looked at hundreds, if not thousands. These are ostensibly among the best softball players in the world, and most of them have swings that would be hard pressed to do well with a -3 BBCOR.

Also, I have never said I have a MLB swing, because MLB swing is not descriptive. I have swung in the high level pattern, but have trouble reproducing it consistently. You have a swing where you feel as though you're not actually swinging the bat, yet the ball rockets off of it. The feel is almost like you're doing nothing but releasing the swing.

 

[roga danar]

Isn't it Rich that says the way he teaches is the way it should be and there is no "frankensteining" what he teaches with any other teaching methods? Maybe they both need to give some ground in that area

IMHO, there is no "Maybe", it should be "Definitely". And on top of that, it is many more than just "both".
To your other point, I believe Rich would call it learning to swing by committee.

For me, the hand pivot point, the rear hip pivot point, and the syncing of the two with a corner, are the absolutes that I want my grands to master. Richards explanations of how to do that is very detailed. But if I come across other sources that explain those ideas in terms that make it even easier to execute, then I'm using those explanations also.

As far as who uses the aliases Grandpa, and Project, I don't have a clue.

I can tell you that I use fairweatherfan at BBD though.

Except for the few posts at HI, I'm more of a lurker here, and at BBD.

 

[straightleg]

Howard and Bustos have put many people into college with scholarships, and I'm never going to take that away from them. It's not about the money or "who puts the most kids into college," at least to me. It's about mechanics.

I'm not interested in talking about money and results. I'm interested in talking about mechanics. There's one high level swing with an infinite number of styles.

Pstein
I have to disagree some with your way of thinking. The mechanics of the girls swing got them into a paid college education. That is the end of the road for 98% of girls and the parents who spent all those summers with them.

Tweaking that swing to match the top 10% of MLB can be an added goal, but it took years to perfect a swing like that.
Most MLB players have minor league career's to work on it, after their college career. Many more years to perfect it. And then you say 80% of them still dont achieve it.
So is the goal realistic

Girls have highschool then, MLB for them is college.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Would be interesting to survey female softball players to see what goal they have, after spending 12 years in travel ball I have a good idea what they would post. Howard has also many college hitting coaches that he can take credit for. If any of you have put a girl in college playing softball you would understand they will swing as the college coach tells them to swing, right or wrong MLB pattern or not. It can be very frustrating for a kid, but the college is paying the bills!