strikeouts or putting the ball in play--the mental appraoch

[CoachFP]

Hal, so you are saying that a pitcher should go for strikeouts when they don't have confidence in their fielders, and that Monica Abbott could pitch to get hitters out and not strike them out because she had Olympic players behind her? I know your stories about strikeouts are told so that you can tell others how many strikeouts you had once. I have struck out 15 batters before also. It happens in fastpitch.

Most young teams can be shakey in the field. But then most young pitchers can be shakey on the mound. For someone like you, who claims to be an expert on pitching, to advocate that young pitchers go for strikeouts is amazing. What is even more amazing is that I am practically the only one on here calling you out on this. You haven't changed your tune, you just come up with anecdotes about how good a pitcher you were. I never saw you mentioned in an open level national, so your escapades were limited, strikeouts and all.

 

[halskinner]

Hal, so you are saying that a pitcher should go for strikeouts when they don't have confidence in their fielders, and that Monica Abbott could pitch to get hitters out and not strike them out because she had Olympic players behind her? I know your stories about strikeouts are told so that you can tell others how many strikeouts you had once. I have struck out 15 batters before also. It happens in fastpitch.

Most young teams can be shakey in the field. But then most young pitchers can be shakey on the mound. For someone like you, who claims to be an expert on pitching, to advocate that young pitchers go for strikeouts is amazing. What is even more amazing is that I am practically the only one on here calling you out on this. You haven't changed your tune, you just come up with anecdotes about how good a pitcher you were. I never saw you mentioned in an open level national, so your escapades were limited, strikeouts and all.

"What is even more amazing is that I am practically the only one on here calling you out on this."

So now what? Do we go out behind the gym and lump each other up? Seems to be what you are trying to accomplish with your posts and that statement.

I have already answered whatever questions you are again asking. Sorry you cant figure the answers out.

Maybe nobody is siding with you because they dont want to side with someone they done know. Must be nice to sit back and hide behind an anonymous wall and throw eggs.

 

[batsics1]

Once again I am having a hard time understanding this argument.

I understand Abbott said she pitches to make hitters hit poorly. But, what was her strikeout record at UT? There seems to be some conflict in what she says and what she did, at least at the collegiate level.

I also understand that a weak ground ball that produces an out, or any other situation in which the ball is put into play that produces a favorable outcome for the defense is good and the pitcher should be commended for throwing pitches that produces such results.

But, how does one teach, practice and mentally prepare to throw the ball at the bat?

Being able to strike out weak batters is a necessary part of the game - obviously. But, for the cream to rise to the top, a pitcher has to develop the skills necessary to strike out the good and great batters. Velocity, control, movement and mechanics all factor into a pitcher’s ability, but the mental approach can subvert or enhance all the other abilities. How does one go about developing the mental approach to improve? What should a pitcher be trying to learn and improve on with every game they pitch?

What should a pitcher be trying to do on every pitch? What should a pitcher be trying to strive for and trying to learn how to do better all the time? How does one get to be the best without setting their sights unreasonably high?

There seems to be a belief that if a pitcher tries to strike out every batter and fails they will crumble and fall apart. Of course that is sometimes true, especially among younger pitchers. But, are we better off helping them to deal with that issue while continuing to encourage them to have high expectations, or are we helping by setting the expectations lower?

In either case, should we set an expectation for number of strikeouts per game, or more specifically, average strikeouts per inning? If so, how does one determine what those numbers should be? If not, why? How should we set goals and expectations for pitchers all along the spectrum of development?

 

[CoachFP]

I guess I give up. This discussion is really fundamental to pitching. What is pitching? Is it to get the batter to miss the ball? No one said Abbott tries to "throw the ball to hit the bat". Pitching in my opinion is to: throw a ball at a speed and location with as much movement as possible to get a hitter "out". Strikeouts accomplish that and so do pop ups and ground balls, the weaker the better. It is a game of exploiting the hitters weaknesses, not striking them out. Sure everyone understands strikeouts are a higher percentage way to get an out since there is no catching and throwing by fielders involved. But the best pitchers aren't necessarily the highest strikeout leaders. So to those of you who gear your pitchers up with some macho strikeout mentality, you are doing a disservice to them and don't understand what pitching is all about.

 

[sjsss]

Coach,

Totally get what you are saying and agree that your approach is sound “game management”. However, from my standpoint as a pitching coach I am faced with trying to produce pitcher’s who are marketable to college coaches. As a pitching coach and as a travel coach in the past dealing with college coaches trying to get my kids recruited, I learned that many college coaches, even at the D1 level do not know what they are looking at, especially when it comes to pitchers. Almost without exception what they want to see from a pitcher at an exposure tournament or ASA Nationals are K’s. The ground ball pitcher who gets 3 or 4 K’s and wins game after game just doesn’t impress, even though this is the kind of journeymen pitcher that also wins games in college at all levels. So, I as a pitching coach am faced with preparing my kids mentally and physically to strike people out, first and foremost, because this is what college coaches want to see. Is this the optimum game strategy ? No, but this is the reality of the environment if they want to capture a coach’s attention.

Steve

 

[CoachFP]

Coach,

Totally get what you are saying and agree that your approach is sound “game management”. However, from my standpoint as a pitching coach I am faced with trying to produce pitcher’s who are marketable to college coaches. As a pitching coach and as a travel coach in the past dealing with college coaches trying to get my kids recruited, I learned that many college coaches, even at the D1 level do not know what they are looking at, especially when it comes to pitchers. Almost without exception what they want to see from a pitcher at an exposure tournament or ASA Nationals are K’s. The ground ball pitcher who gets 3 or 4 K’s and wins game after game just doesn’t impress, even though this is the kind of journeymen pitcher that also wins games in college at all levels. So, I as a pitching coach am faced with preparing my kids mentally and physically to strike people out, first and foremost, because this is what college coaches want to see. Is this the optimum game strategy ? No, but this is the reality of the environment if they want to capture a coach’s attention.

Steve

Interesting dilemna. You are absolutely right. Most and I mean most college coaches looking at pitchers do not know what they are looking at. The radar gun is their security blanket and strikeouts can be a statistic they point to. I look at the kinds of pitches a pitcher throws, their command and movement. You also have to be careful with strikeouts because they could be against bad hitters and what does that prove?

 

[JC heir]

Just rofl here- Folks this is not brain surgery. I gotta thing every pitcher is trying to throw a pitch that the batter will either A. miss (hopefully)therefore a chance for strikeout, or B hit poorly therfore alowing an easy fielders out. The pitched ball is one & the same in both situations. Is a strikeout the desired ourcome- Of Course. Is a weak ground out a very close second- yes,except in a few situations where the weak hit advances the runner. In either case, it is better than C., a nice big fat one down the middle that gets hit to the cheap seats.

 

[CoachFP]

Just rofl here- Folks this is not brain surgery. I gotta thing every pitcher is trying to throw a pitch that the batter will either A. miss (hopefully)therefore a chance for strikeout, or B hit poorly therfore alowing an easy fielders out. The pitched ball is one & the same in both situations. Is a strikeout the desired ourcome- Of Course. Is a weak ground out a very close second- yes,except in a few situations where the weak hit advances the runner. In either case, it is better than C., a nice big fat one down the middle that gets hit to the cheap seats.

You got it. It's the pitch not the result that the pitcher should be after.

 

[batsics1]

This thread has touched on a number of issues. I think it is unfinished until we discuss what expectations a pitcher should have and what goals should be set. I am very much interested in opinions on the last set of questions from my previous post.

Should we set an expectation for number of strikeouts per game, or more specifically, average strikeouts per inning? If so, how does one determine what those numbers should be? If not, why? What goals and expectations should be established for pitchers all along the spectrum of development?

 

[halskinner]

This thread has touched on a number of issues. I think it is unfinished until we discuss what expectations a pitcher should have and what goals should be set. I am very much interested in opinions on the last set of questions from my previous post.

Should we set an expectation for number of strikeouts per game, or more specifically, average strikeouts per inning? If so, how does one determine what those numbers should be? If not, why? What goals and expectations should be established for pitchers all along the spectrum of development?

Maybe this thread will answer some of them