strikeouts or putting the ball in play--the mental appraoch

[calgofo]

CB,

If your DD is popping 60+ and getting 6-7K's against good TB teams, I'm pretty confident college coaches will take notice.

 

[Hillhouse]

Coachfp,

Try this some time. At a tourney, make up your line up, then you and your other coaches go sit in the stands and watch. Let your team pick their base coaches from the players sitting the bench. See if your 'Teachings / training has sunk in or not.

When your catcher and pitcher are calling the pitches, I will bet they go for the strike outs.

Do you have enough confidence in them to let them do that? I have suggested that to coaches many times. I have seen them do that only a few times, however, each time they did, their teams performed very very well. The times that I watched that occur, the pitcher/ catcher battery seemed to be going for strike outs to me.

Hal

Without trying to start trouble... how exactly does one "go for the strikeout"? I don't think anyone would argue that if you get 2 strikes on someone, the next pitch should be the "pitcher's pitch" which can be a strike out. But how does someone start off a new hitter by "going for a strikeout"? Personally, I want 21 outs. Pop ups, strikeouts, groundouts, or if they bat out of order.. I don't care.

"Strike outs are boring. Besides that they are facist". -immortal words of Crash Davis.

 

[halskinner]

Hal

Without trying to start trouble... how exactly does one "go for the strikeout"? I don't think anyone would argue that if you get 2 strikes on someone, the next pitch should be the "pitcher's pitch" which can be a strike out. But how does someone start off a new hitter by "going for a strikeout"? Personally, I want 21 outs. Pop ups, strikeouts, groundouts, or if they bat out of order.. I don't care.

"Strike outs are boring. Besides that they are facist". -immortal words of Crash Davis.

It takes three strikes to strike a batter out. You go after every batter, with every pitch, with the intention of doing just that.

If you are not successful at striking that batter out and they hit the ball and put it in play, THEN you rely on your fieders to do well and get the out. However, I have seen many a pitcher that seemed to not mind if the batter hit the ball and put it in play. If the fielders do not get the out, "Oh well, I dont care, I did my job". They relied so heavily on having a strong defense that they could not care less if they EVER got a strike out.

I DO care!

 

[CoachFP]

Hal, I'll give you this, you won't back down. In the game of softball, the odds are that people are going to hit the ball more often than they are going to strike out. Part of your logic is that fielders can let you down and that strikeouts prevent this. But to play a game where your goal is to reach for the lower percentage play defies logic. Their are going to be batters that at times you are not going to strike out. Even the great Hal Skinner, I am sure, had guys that he couldn't strike out. So if the pitcher tries to strike that hitter out rather than to get them to swing at pitches away from their strength, that pitcher is asking for trouble and asking to get beat.

 

[alexander58]

This post is outstanding! My dd pitches and is now 16. She had done well in both HS and travel ball. However, she averaged 7 strikeouts for both her freshman and sophomore years on our varsity. She has done close to the same in travel with 6 Ks per game avg. She is a dropball pitcher that can get up there in the low 60s. Her FB is 60 and her change is 40. Those were recently gunned at a college camp. Average to below average to be sure. We don't stress striking out hitters. We stress being a pitcher. To me, pitchers know how to set up hitters, identify those players who they will not allow to beat their team, pitch to location with all pitches and then step in the circle with a competitive spirit. In my dd's way of thinking, setting a hitter up and getting that groundball to 3rd is what pitching is all about.

However, Hal is right in his assertion that for many, it is all about the strikeout. Our travel coach is now working with my dd to get her K total up. She wants to pitch in college. That is not going to happen, in my opinion, unless she improves her K ratio. I believe that CoachFP also recognized in this discussion that Ks are what many, if not most, college coaches look for and so, regardless of the validity of whether they know what they are doing or not, that is their criteria.

Hal, I respect your posts on here and have read them for some time. I do disagree on the K aspect defining pitching. That's fine and who am I. I will say that I've coached 4 or 5 guys who have pitched in MLB. None of them were in love with the K. Instead, they learned how to pitch. Learned how to pitch, again, by knowing who you will not let beat you. Knowing how to pitch "backwards" is key in my opinion. In otherwords being able to throw the change in fastball counts. Being able to control the count to get the hitter out and then, being able to always spot pitches. BTW, I was asked recently on another site why I didn't think my dd would be able to throw at a D-I school. The answer is simple, at this time, again she is 16, she misses over the plate too much when she is behind in the count. When she improves on this, and again, she works hard, perhaps she will be able to.

BTW, to see my dd's entire recruitment video, which includes hitting, pitching, and fielding, please type in to YouTube:

Brianna Butler Softball Skills Video

Let me know what you guys think about her.

She looks quite polished to me. 60mph is fast enough,certainly not below average.She's obviously been to a Finch style disciple.. You should be proud.

 

[Dusty]

"Strike outs are boring. Besides that they are facist". -immortal words of Crash Davis.

I certainly hope my dd's become the fascist pitchers around.

 

[halskinner]

Hal, I'll give you this, you won't back down. In the game of softball, the odds are that people are going to hit the ball more often than they are going to strike out. Part of your logic is that fielders can let you down and that strikeouts prevent this. But to play a game where your goal is to reach for the lower percentage play defies logic. Their are going to be batters that at times you are not going to strike out. Even the great Hal Skinner, I am sure, had guys that he couldn't strike out. So if the pitcher tries to strike that hitter out rather than to get them to swing at pitches away from their strength, that pitcher is asking for trouble and asking to get beat.

"Even the great Hal Skinner, I am sure, had guys that he couldn't strike out."

There is only one guy that comes to mind, that I played against, his name was Leroy Clevenger. He was a pitcher then I would say around 45ish, I was early 20's. He hit everything I could throw, I could not fool him, I could not put it by him. I dont believe I EVER struck him out and I faced him a few hundred times I am sure.

He owned me, he knew it, and so did I. I always tried to strike him out too.

 

[Mark H]

You think he had you picked? Did he hit you for power? I'd be interested in your take on his hitting.

 

[halskinner]

You think he had you picked? Did he hit you for power? I'd be interested in your take on his hitting.

You think he had you picked? Not really just me, he made contact with everyone that pitched to him.

Did he hit you for power? Nope, seldom out of the infield and he didnt make it to first very often. However, if I struck out EVERYONE else on his team, he would get the only hits for the game. He was a no-hitter killer!

He wasnt known for his pitching, he wasnt known for his hitting, but he could put the bat on the ball no matter who was pitching.

I was a feather in his cap every time and he was never a feather in mine, that was what was so irritating. Played him in leagues, church league once and at tournies once in awhile.

 

[Mark H]

Not that hard to not strike out if you aren't going to get the ball out of the infield. Now if he was doubling you into the gap consistently, THEN I'd agree he owned you. Or even if he slapped the ball somewhere in the infield, outran the throw to first and then stole second consistently that might be a little ownership. But you say he didn't make to first that often? I wouldn't consider that a blemish on your record. I'm pretty sure single A hitters could have dinked the ball into the infield against Randy Johnson on his best day.