Why athletes with average talent succeed...

[CoogansBluff]

No. Talent wins the majority of the time even when it's lazy.

You can work as hard as you want. You can have "heart" and "chemistry" but in the end talent wins more than it loses.

You have to define lazy, and you have to specify the activity.

Carl Lewis could probably out-run me every day of our lives without any training. But Cat Osterman would not have been even a decent college pitcher without a certain amount of work required to learn the craft.

As for lazy, what is lazy? A lot of kids we might call lazy are still playing 90 games a year and pitching 200 innings or getting 200 at-bats. So even if they're getting out-worked during the week, that's still a huge investment.

I agree w/ you that the slogan 'hard work beats talent ... ' can't be taken literally all the time. It's designed simply to make a point, or to inspire people. Similarly, I don't know if you can say talent usually wins. Depends on lots of factors.

Softball talent must be developed. So you have this hard work/talent relationship that is hard to define.

 

[sluggers]

Oh, now I understand...it is all so clear!

My DD#3 (on left) played this young lady (on right) (Candace Parker) in HS hoops:

If only my DD#3 had worked harder, she could have held Candace (SEC Rookie of the Year, NCAA Finals MVP, 2 time Olympic Gold medalist, WNBA Rookie of the Year, WNBA MVP) to 20 point instead of 21.

FYI, Candace and DD#3 played ball against each other for several years. Candace got the best of DD#3 in all games, except for one game in the 3rd grade--when Candace had the flu. Somehow, someway, DD#3 learned to live with the crushing reality that Candace was a much better ball player.

(As an aside, playing Candace made my DD#3 a better ball player. When DD#3's D3 hoop team won the championship, she was paired against three D3 All-American post players in a row. She would always say, "At least she's not Candace. I'll be OK.")

 

[BobInMadison]

To do very well in a sport requires several things:

The right genes. For example, for some sports, such as softball pitching, women's volleyball, rowing, among others, it helps quite a bit to be 6' or taller, being in the top 1% of height. Cat Osterman is much shorter, but she has very powerful legs and gets every ounce of force she can.

The right opportunities. Lots of luck involved. Certain socio-economic groups and certain geographical areas see fewer opportunities. The sport of softball is disproportionally overrepresented by white upper-middle or upper class families in a few warm states plus the suburbs of a few major metropolitan areas. A poor black kid from Fargo may still do well in softball, but the chances are lower.

The right coaching. Some overlap with the point above.

The right work ethic.

As far as an "average" kid? Depends on a lot of things. For example, my DS has about average to a little above average natural talent in rowing. He is only 6', with the right shoes, short for a rower. However, he stumbled into some great opportunities, he's had great coaching and a strong work ethic. That put him among the elite of D-III rowers. He has friends who had all that plus better genes, and his friends are elite D-I rowers.

I think the same is true of softball. Someone with average or slightly above average talent can, with the right coaching, opportunities and work ethic, get to be a darn good D-III player.

 

[Tatonka]

For example, for some sports, such as softball pitching, women's volleyball, rowing, among others, it helps quite a bit to be 6' or taller, being in the top 1% of height. Cat Osterman is much shorter, but she has very powerful legs and gets every ounce of force she can.

Bob, I'm just guessing here but I suspect you meant someone other than Cat (who is 6'3"), maybe Amanda Scarborough or ??

Also, I love these sayings but obviously they don't apply to everyone, all the time.

 

[quincy]

Dd has nothing going for her, she is pretty good

 

[GunnerShotgun]

To do very well in a sport requires several things:

The right genes. For example, for some sports, such as softball pitching, women's volleyball, rowing, among others, it helps quite a bit to be 6' or taller, being in the top 1% of height.

Citation needed.

There is no correlation between pitching/throwing/hitting speed and height. From physics we know longer levers require more torque.

Pitchers are not faster or more durable in correlation to their height.

For every Randy Johnson there is a Pedro Martinez or Billy Wagner.

Meh.

 

[BobInMadison]

Bob, I'm just guessing here but I suspect you meant someone other than Cat (who is 6'3"), maybe Amanda Scarborough or ??

Also, I love these sayings but obviously they don't apply to everyone, all the time.

I got confused. I did mean Amanda. I apologize. I am really bad at names. Sometimes I wonder why people are calling me Bob, then I remember.

 

[BobInMadison]

Citation needed.

There is no correlation between pitching/throwing/hitting speed and height. From physics we know longer levers require more torque.

Pitchers are not faster or more durable in correlation to their height.

For every Randy Johnson there is a Pedro Martinez or Billy Wagner.

Meh.

I haven't been able to find very recent data, and with me posting from my phone I won't post links.

What I have found -- the average US man is 5'9". The average MLB player 6'1", the average pitcher 6'2" (2012, the height has probably gone up since then. )
In 2009 the average height of the top 20 K artists was 6'5".

Nor was Pedro Martinez short. At 5'11" he was taller than average.

Softball pitching has another factor. Longer legs help, and taller girls generally have longer legs. OTOH, for rowing the wingspan is most important, since taller rowers can get more torque. DS has a picture with some former Olympic make rowers. They were 6'7" twins, Wisconsin alumni.

 

[CoogansBluff]

I have no dog in the fight, but ...

I'd feel pretty certain that if you researched the rosters of Power 5 conference softball teams that pitchers would be taller than position players on average and significantly taller than the average U.S. woman.

Why would that be if height didn't provide some advantage in pitching?

 

[Kcsftbl]

How often do you see a tall person with small hands ? Makes a difference on grip . I think