Thoughts on Daughter's Swing

[FiveFrameSwing]

She's doing a lot correct ... well connected swing. The two of you have done well.

p.s.
In terms of a drill to promote rear foot eversion ... go to the link and read the posts about a baserunner's first movement from a delayed steal. I've used that to help gain the feel.

Once the feel is 'understood', I've had decent success having a hitter simply replicate that feel, using the "I'm running" cue. I ask that they give me 12 correct swings in a row. I'll have them start from scratch if they fail once and spin. What I'm doing here is forcing them to think about getting this right. Hitters have a tendency to revert back to their prior mechanics if they become overly comfortable and aren't forced to "feel" what it is they should be "feeling". Changing one's "movement pattern" often requires more than simply explaining and demonstrating.

Another common drill is to place a ball behind the rear heel (some use a helmet placed behind the rear foot). Someone that spins as your daughter does will make the ball roll rearward when they swing. Someone that properly everts will not push the ball rearward. I haven't had a lot of immediate success with this drill ... as kids will often return to their next hitting session spinning and need to go through the drill again. Being serious, and requiring 12 swings with eversion, without spinning, seems to get the message across ... and I'm not overly nice ... I will have a hitter start all over from scratch if the 11th swing includes spinning. I've found this later approach to result in hitters returning to follow-up hitting sessions with spinning corrected.

 

[dukie]

Five Frame, the reference to the heel and the crack in the driveway explains it perfectly and in terms that she will understand and accept. Sometimes at that age they feel they do nothing wrong!

 

[2bucketdad]

IMO if she doesn't let the front foot spin open it will be easier to push into a firm from side with her back drive foot... Push off that back toe into the closed firm front side instead of letting it spin open...

 

[Jim]

Well said 2bucketdad

 

[Wellphyt]

Thanks for the opinions everyone. Other than the rear foot and spinning does everything else look decent?
Also, any particular drills to help with the rear foot eversion?

Here is Boardmember demonstrating a drill that I now use to teach kids the basic concept of creating a rear leg launching pad for the hips.

[video]http://i53.tinypic.com/wuqe5d.gif[/video]


This drill will help kids get out of the habit of purposefully turning the rear knee down-and-in and spinning.

As with any drill, it's important to understand the purpose of this drill and how to build around it. During the backward coil movement of this drill, the player will feel a sensation of pressure at the rear foot in an outward direction. When the backward movement reverses and the hips begin to turn forward the player needs to maintain the outward pressure against the ground at the rear foot that they felt during the initial coil phase. Keeping outward pressure at the rear foot during the reversal of the hips is the main thing the kids need to take away from this drill.

Once they understand how to use the ground to uncoil; which they will after doing this drill a bunch of times. Then it's time to build in front side resistence when they pick up their front leg to stride. All that means is that when they pick up their front foot to stride, they turn their front leg in, and keep it turned in until they approach toe touch. Your daughter already does this so you can skip this part. If for some reason she loses it doing the drill, which she shouldn't; build it back in.

I don't teach the action of eversion. I try and teach the movement that leads to eversion. I work as far upstream as I can in order to keep things simple. I'm not very smart so I try and reduce what I teach to a bare minimum.

 

[Wellphyt]

IMO if she doesn't let the front foot spin open it will be easier to push into a firm from side with her back drive foot... Push off that back toe into the closed firm front side instead of letting it spin open...

I'm not a big fan of telling kids to push off the back foot. For those who are trying to settle on an approach to teach weight shift; how you view the reversal of the hips matters. It matters a lot! Do you believe the hips get pushed forward by the back leg? Or, do you believe the hips use the back leg as a launching pad to reverse off of?

Two totally different approaches, creating two different levels of efficiency.

As you experiment with this stuff by swinging a bat, pay attention to the pressures felt at the back foot. Is it possible that the push off from the back toe that most describe, is really the back foot simply absorbing the sudden increase of force created at the moment the hips reverse? If the hips reverse off of a firm back leg, the force created during the reversal will quickly make it's way down to the back foot, right? If the back foot was in a sock on ice, the back foot would simply slip, correct? But what if the back foot was in a cleat on dirt? Just something to ponder.

 

[2bucketdad]

I'm not a big fan of telling kids to push off the back foot. For those who are trying to settle on an approach to teach weight shift; how you view the reversal of the hips matters. It matters a lot! Do you believe the hips get pushed forward by the back leg? Or, do you believe the hips use the back leg as a launching pad to reverse off of?

Two totally different approaches, creating two different levels of efficiency.

As you experiment with this stuff by swinging a bat, pay attention to the pressures felt at the back foot. Is it possible that the push off from the back toe that most describe, is really the back foot simply absorbing the sudden increase of force created at the moment the hips reverse? If the hips reverse off of a firm back leg, the force created during the reversal will quickly make it's way down to the back foot, right? If the back foot was in a sock on ice, the back foot would simply slip, correct? But what if the back foot was in a cleat on dirt? Just something to ponder.

Wellphyt,

let me first start by saying that I am very new to the hitting aspect of this and the things I am saying are only my opinions and they are based on less than a year of really working on hitting with my daughters and the team that my youngest is on that I assist in coaching...They are what I have gathered and picked up from a couple of different hitting coaches and stuff that I read and seen online etc, so they may be right or they may be totally incorrect...I don't know for sure...lol

With that said I believe that the legs and hips work together but that the point that the swing starts that we were talking about above is the inside of the ball of the foot or the big toe area of the rear most foot depending on if you are righty or lefty...

If you are working on a T or soft toss or whatever and imagine taking a batting stance with your feet a little closer than normal and taking a step backwards with your drive foot and land on your big toe or ball of your foot, and at the same time let your front leg straighten becomming the firm front side...as your rear foot hits the ball of your foot you drive it into the ground and push your rear knee and hip forward into your front hip...That is what I want the kids to feel...then they go forward through contact before they spin the upper body open and finish high...I have become partial to top hand release...

Like I said this may be totally wrong but it is what I think is happening right now based on my limited knowledge...

 

[Wellphyt]

Wellphyt,

let me first start by saying that I am very new to the hitting aspect of this and the things I am saying are only my opinions and they are based on less than a year of really working on hitting with my daughters and the team that my youngest is on that I assist in coaching...They are what I have gathered and picked up from a couple of different hitting coaches and stuff that I read and seen online etc, so they may be right or they may be totally incorrect...I don't know for sure...lol

With that said I believe that the legs and hips work together but that the point that the swing starts that we were talking about above is the inside of the ball of the foot or the big toe area of the rear most foot depending on if you are righty or lefty...

If you are working on a T or soft toss or whatever and imagine taking a batting stance with your feet a little closer than normal and taking a step backwards with your drive foot and land on your big toe or ball of your foot, and at the same time let your front leg straighten becomming the firm front side...as your rear foot hits the ball of your foot you drive it into the ground and push your rear knee and hip forward into your front hip...That is what I want the kids to feel...then they go forward through contact before they spin the upper body open and finish high...I have become partial to top hand release...

Like I said this may be totally wrong but it is what I think is happening right now based on my limited knowledge...

I'm just throwing some stuff out there for people to consider. Up until this year, I used to teach the "Elvis Move" which is the same as pushing off with the big toe. One thing that always bothered me however, was that I could never see the press off the ball of the back foot when I looked at slow motion video of the best. What I saw was the back foot passing through eversion, then rolling over as the hips uncoiled, followed by the back foot becoming unweighted. When I hit, I started paying attention to what my back foot was doing, and I realized I didn't push off the ground with the ball of my foot or big toe. However, I couldn't figure out what I was doing. Too natural of a movement.

Then several months ago Boardmember started a thread on "The Move" on another site. For me, that was the missing piece of the puzzle. It was the natural movement that I didn't know I did. BM's post on "The Move" clicked immediately and within minutes I figured out it was the same basic action as in the overhand throw as well as other activities.

It's human nature to teach movements that can be clearly seen. Everybody sees the back knee turning down and in; so that's what gets taught. What they don't see is the ground reaction forces taking place at the back foot. Out of sight, out of mind.

My suggestion as always is for people to swing a bat and experiment; by going back and forth between various approaches.

 

[Jim]

Trying to rotate your hips or "pop" your hips always leads to very long, slow swings. Keeping the timing of the back side (back knee, back shoulder, top hand, back hip, back heel) connected is key. The back heel starts to come up as the back knee starts to drive forward and down. This happens as the front heel comes down.

 

[Wellphyt]

The hip action is a pendulum action - move and countermove.