The Pirates pitcher who succeeds by not throwing strikes

[SoAZDad]

I think girls that are fortunate enough to be on teams with coaches that value teaching over maintaining control of the game learn how to be pitchers and not just sign takers. I just don't think there are many coaches like this. My guess is that we have a few on this board that would actively encourage this. I can see Ken Krause giving a pitcher a green light to shake a pitch off, or maybe Riseball, but most TB coaches are pretty territorial on the pitch calling, and most girls are just not going to override that unless explicitly encouraged because they think it is disobeying a coach. I've tried for a long time to get DD to shake one off like Nano's DD did and she just will not do it.

In fact I can't even remember a coach TALKING about pitching strategy with my kid. This next season I am going to try to get DD to ask for permission to work directly with the catcher to call their own stuff for an inning here and there during friendlies.

DDs PC works strictly on form and mechanics. He talks to her about owning her game(s). I talk to her about setting up different batters. This year, she nodded off the catcher's call 10 or 15 times. The coaches gave her NO gruff for that.

 

[JAD]

Not that you are wrong in your thinking ... but you are ruling out a lot of coaches if his position on this topic is your reason.

I am getting more selective in my old age....and years of experience have taught me there are a lot or morons in coaching.....I am also working with my DD to try to make her a smarter pitcher. I do not want her to be a mind numb robot who just mindlessly throws whatever the coach calls!

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I am getting more selective in my old age....and years of experience have taught me there are a lot or morons in coaching.....I am also working with my DD to try to make her a smarter pitcher. I do not want her to be a mind numb robot who just mindlessly throws whatever the coach calls!

I understand ... becoming selective in one's old age certainly makes sense ... but I also understand that many of those 'moron coaches' feel the same way about the parents that think their young pitcher, with limited experience, should be given the responsibility for calling the game.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I understand ... becoming selective in one's old age certainly makes sense ... but I also understand that many of those 'moron coaches' feel the same way about the parents that think their young pitcher, with limited experience, should be given the responsibility for calling the game.

Sounds like a Mexican stand off.

PS I'm still waiting for just one coach, college or otherwise, to acknowledge that they could call a more effective game from behind the plate than from the dugout. And then explain why they still insist on calling the game from the dugout.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Sounds like a Mexican stand off.

PS I'm still waiting for just one coach, college or otherwise, to acknowledge that they could call a more effective game from behind the plate than from the dugout. And then explain why they still insist on calling the game from the dugout.

Coaches, college or otherwise, don't have the option to call the game from behind the plate.

It isn't like the pitch caller isn't receiving signs back from the catcher to relay useful information ... often they are. My catchers relay information back to me. However, many coaches (not all) have invested a great deal in the activity ... many have studied it, and experienced it, far longer than the girls have been playing (especially if you consider that at the younger ages, pitch calling is more of a mute point). They believe a fair amount of information needs to be taken into consideration ... base runners, score, past plate appearances, yadda yadda yadda ... you get the point. These coaches, whether correct or incorrect, don't want to invest all this effort and then give the "game within the game" away to someone that has often studied and experienced the game to a much lesser degree.

 

[riseball]

Sounds like a Mexican stand off.

PS I'm still waiting for just one coach, college or otherwise, to acknowledge that they could call a more effective game from behind the plate than from the dugout. And then explain why they still insist on calling the game from the dugout.

Each perspective has its pros and cons. More often than not I let my 2016 catcher call the game from behind the plate. Yesterday I had her call pitches for a green 2018 catcher from a bucket in the dugout. After 2 batters she turns to me and says "I wish I could see everything from behind the plate that I can see from here." True it is a great view from behind the plate, but it is very limited.

 

[chinamigarden]

Phil's position on the topic .....

Pitchers should have to think when executing a pitch. That's what practice is for. If you are calling for a pitch and she has to think during the pitch sequence what's my grip? What's my stride length, what's the release? where do I aim?... She probably isn't ready to throw that pitch in a game Besides the same could be said for the coach he/she has a lot on his/her mind as well. Yet they find it in the brain to somehow call the game

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Pitchers should have to think when executing a pitch. That's what practice is for. If you are calling for a pitch and she has to think during the pitch sequence what's my grip? What's my stride length, what's the release? where do I aim?... She probably isn't ready to throw that pitch in a game Besides the same could be said for the coach he/she has a lot on his/her mind as well. Yet they find it in the brain to somehow call the game

It certainly helps if the pitcher is on the same wavelength as the pitch caller and has an understanding of the particular strategy being used. Not uncommon for a pitcher and pitch caller to review the anticipated degree of 'misses' based on pitch count ... and to understand when a pitch is a take-down pitch, a pitch to weak-contact pitch, or a setup pitch for an upcoming pitch.

The pitcher really does have a lot to do. She should be making 'adjustments' based on the last time she threw the pitch she is about to throw. Just as a hitter feels their swing, and re-calibrates for the next swing.

On a somewhat different analogy ... should the Generals or Soldiers run our wars?

 

[JJsqueeze]

leaders set strategies, tactics are left to well trained subordinates. Is a single pitch call a strategy or a tactic?

 

[Rick Pauly]

Coaches, college or otherwise, don't have the option to call the game from behind the plate.

It isn't like the pitch caller isn't receiving signs back from the catcher to relay useful information ... often they are. My catchers relay information back to me. However, many coaches (not all) have invested a great deal in the activity ... many have studied it, and experienced it, far longer than the girls have been playing (especially if you consider that at the younger ages, pitch calling is more of a mute point). They believe a fair amount of information needs to be taken into consideration ... base runners, score, past plate appearances, yadda yadda yadda ... you get the point. These coaches, whether correct or incorrect, don't want to invest all this effort and then give the "game within the game" away to someone that has often studied and experienced the game to a much lesser degree.

FFS has nailed it. In major college softball the opponent scouting by the pitching coach is intense and certainly should give them a better understanding of a certain hitters weaknesses relative to their pitchers strengths.......in most cases (including me) the pitcher is allowed/encouraged to shake off a pitch if they feel uncomfortable with the one called or if they feel another pitch is going to be more effective. My pitchers last year were allowed to shake and did.