The Pirates pitcher who succeeds by not throwing strikes

[JAD]

The pitch caller has an excellent view of how the batter is responding to pitches ... which comes in handy when the scouting report is dry.

As for the ego issue ... I would think these same coaches that you complain about would believe the ego issue resides with the parents wanting their kid to call the game.

The kids do not have to call the game, but I do NOT want my DD to be coached by someone who does not accept input from his/her players. Especially when that coach was not a pitcher/catcher at the collegiate level, is not a qualified instructor, does not attend my DD's pitching lessons or spend any time on a bucket catching for her. There are a lot of great coaches out there, but there are also a lot of egotistical morons. My advice is parents do their homework before selecting a team, especially if their DD is a pitcher.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I will agree in MAJOR COLLEGE SOFTBALL, but how many TB and HS coaches have access to similar scouting reports? My problem is with TB and HS coaches who ACT LIKE they have major college level scouting reports, when all they really have is an ego.....

BINGO. The fact is that most rec, HS, and TB coaches do not have scouting reports (or scouting reports that couldn't be conveyed very easily to their catchers, especially on an armband) nor do they have any firsthand experience calling a game from anywhere other than the dugout. To a lesser degree, college coaches fall into the same category! Yet, these coaches somehow believe that they are more capable, qualified, and - bottom line important - effective than any catcher could be. At 14U I realized that 2 of my 3 catchers could routinely be more effective calling than I could from the bench (the other wanted nothing to do with it and stopped playing entirely 2 years later). If a coach hasn't caught and called games, most don't appreciate (or even recognize) the advantage that potentially exists with the catcher and pitcher working together to implement the coach's game plan. And if they can't recognize that, what kind of coaching knowledge do they really have to offer a catcher and pitcher who want to take it to the next level?

If you give young catchers some basic training and guidelines (which frankly is all that most coaches themselves have) and the opportunity to call games then they'll have the experience when they get to college. FWIW, DD's final choice of schools did consider which coaches would allow an experienced catcher to call games.

 

[Greenmonsters]

At a lot times, especially at the younger ages, when you have the catcher calling the game, it ends up that the pitcher is actually calling the game … and as GM pointed out earlier, the pitcher is not always the “best at making real-time unbiased, objective assessments of their own pitches and effectiveness”.

What I see somewhat frequently is pitchers believing that they are best situated to be calling the game. Personally I wonder if their PC’s make them believe that their role on the team is even more exciting. Let’s face it … pitching is about going through long boring monotonous practices … again and again … and some PCs attempt to pump them up with dreams.

Allow pitchers significant freedom to shake off pitches, and they effectively are calling the game. If a pitcher has been throwing the drop well all game, and suddenly doesn’t like it … it isn’t because they can’t throw it, but because they wish to execute a different strategy than the coach … and a lot of times, the strategy the pitcher goes with, runs dry … i.e., it is a one-pitch strategy, and it breaks the entire sequence of that at-bat.

An experienced catcher will learn when to let a pitcher shake and when not. The advantage that a catcher has over a PC is that they have unlimited circle visits to explain to the pitcher the reasons why they are calling what they are calling and how that fits into the next pitch, the one after that, and the one after that etc. A catcher and pitcher working that closely together builds trust and confidence which are important keys to success. Not all develop that chemistry, but when it is, a pitcher's effectiveness is optimized.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The kids do not have to call the game, but I do NOT want my DD to be coached by someone who does not accept input from his/her players. Especially when that coach was not a pitcher/catcher at the collegiate level, is not a qualified instructor, does not attend my DD's pitching lessons or spend any time on a bucket catching for her. There are a lot of great coaches out there, but there are also a lot of egotistical morons. My advice is parents do their homework before selecting a team, especially if their DD is a pitcher.

Many coaches love to teach and will communicate with players ... especially during practices ... and many will gladly discuss strategies outside of the game. They take input from the players and explain to them why the strategy is being used.

 

[riseball]

Unfortunately the one thing that a catcher cannot really see in this whole scenario is the hitter, which is critical when there is no "scouting report".

 

[Greenmonsters]

Unfortunately the one thing that a catcher cannot really see in this whole scenario is the hitter, which is critical when there is no "scouting report".

We'll have to disagree on this one.

 

[riseball]

Unfortunately the one thing that a catcher cannot really see in this whole scenario is the hitter, which is critical when there is no "scouting report".

We'll have to disagree on this one.

Which part? How does the catcher see the hitters swing mechanics to spot a potential flaw such as casting that could be easily exploited?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Unfortunately the one thing that a catcher cannot really see in this whole scenario is the hitter, which is critical when there is no "scouting report".

Agree.

Tried to make the same point earlier in the thread.

The pitch caller has an excellent view of how the batter is responding to pitches ... which comes in handy when the scouting report is dry.

As for the ego issue ... I would think these same coaches that you complain about would believe the ego issue resides with the parents wanting their kid to call the game.

Those that understanding hitting can learn a great deal from observing how a batter's body reacts to various pitches.

 

[riseball]

I know enough about hitting to be dangerous as I have a decent idea what they probably cannot hit. Casting is a prime example of something it is next to impossible for the catcher to notice. I usually leave it up to the pitcher and catcher figure out how to best attack that vulnerability which I may have first noticed when the hitter was in the on deck circle.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Which part? How does the catcher see the hitters swing mechanics to spot a potential flaw such as casting that could be easily exploited?

I never felt I had a problem reading a batter even if I had to catch a pitch. I don't have to focus entirely on a swing to realize that a hitter is dropping their hands or can't get out of their own way on an inside pitch, or pulling off and leaving the outside corner uncovered. FWIW, if a catcher isn't looking into the dugout waiting on a sign, they too may have a chance to watch a hitter's practice swings. And they may have the luxury of watching opposing BP while the coach is distracted running pre-game stuff. Regardless, without a scouting report, we're all blind until we see a batter swing at a live pitch. In that case, I'll default to working off the pitcher's strengths and then, based on the hitter's reactions, I may or may not change the plan. Rinse and repeat after each pitch. It is not formulaic.