Great story. Just wanted to mention this though. I'm assuming he has no kid on the team right? It's alwayas nice when a totally impartial competent coach who takes over for a while. The coaches may be doing an awsome job but getting a fresh prespective can sometimes uncover a gem, like your daughter maybe being an ace pitcher when she was labled a #4.
Substituting on a competitive team.
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- Jan 31, 2011
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Momo'sDad, I believe a huge roster causes problems. I went with 11 this year for that reason. Everyone plays a lot.
As long as we are telling coaching horror stories...I have 2.
Last year was our 1st year on a travel team. My daughter is newer into pitching (even though she was 14). We had been having weekly practices and my daughter was their only pitcher up to this point. She had been pitching all batting practices and doing a pretty good job---but she was slower. She still doesnt pitch 60.
One day after practice, the head coach announces that next week, a new girl that moved here from Arizona and throws in the 60's will be joining the team and then....right in front of my daughter who has been working her little behind off for this man) says to the whole team......then you girls can see what its like to hit off of a real pitcher. MY MOUTH DROPPED. ok....so my kid wasnt the best or the fastest...but she IS a real pitcher. I should have taken her and walked right then...but like I said, we were new into this travel thing and she had her heart set on playing in tournaments.
Of course, these are the same coaches that....later that summer....we are at a tournament and my daughter was the only pitcher available (same kid who isnt a real "pitcher") and she is working on a no hitter. I kid you not...she actually threw a no hitter. she didnt become this amazing pitcher overnight....she just worked hard and it was paying off.
Anyway....The game wasnt even over and the coaches were on the phone looking for their "ace" pitcher. After the game....they didnt even make a big deal out of it. Us parents (including the other kids parents) made a big deal out of it and even got her the game ball. But, all the coaches could worry about was getting their ace pitcher there for the next game. As soon as she showed, my daughter was totally ignored and never got to pitch for the rest of the day. They pitched their "ace" until her arm was about to fall off and we lost the semifinal game because she couldnt pitch anymore.
silly me....when my kid was throwing her no hitter...I was dumb enough to think she might have made an impression on the coaches and she would be given another chance.
Needless to say.....we are no longer with this team. I learned a lot that season LOL
Last year was our 1st year on a travel team. My daughter is newer into pitching (even though she was 14). We had been having weekly practices and my daughter was their only pitcher up to this point. She had been pitching all batting practices and doing a pretty good job---but she was slower. She still doesnt pitch 60.
One day after practice, the head coach announces that next week, a new girl that moved here from Arizona and throws in the 60's will be joining the team and then....right in front of my daughter who has been working her little behind off for this man) says to the whole team......then you girls can see what its like to hit off of a real pitcher. MY MOUTH DROPPED. ok....so my kid wasnt the best or the fastest...but she IS a real pitcher. I should have taken her and walked right then...but like I said, we were new into this travel thing and she had her heart set on playing in tournaments.
Of course, these are the same coaches that....later that summer....we are at a tournament and my daughter was the only pitcher available (same kid who isnt a real "pitcher") and she is working on a no hitter. I kid you not...she actually threw a no hitter. she didnt become this amazing pitcher overnight....she just worked hard and it was paying off.
Anyway....The game wasnt even over and the coaches were on the phone looking for their "ace" pitcher. After the game....they didnt even make a big deal out of it. Us parents (including the other kids parents) made a big deal out of it and even got her the game ball. But, all the coaches could worry about was getting their ace pitcher there for the next game. As soon as she showed, my daughter was totally ignored and never got to pitch for the rest of the day. They pitched their "ace" until her arm was about to fall off and we lost the semifinal game because she couldnt pitch anymore.
silly me....when my kid was throwing her no hitter...I was dumb enough to think she might have made an impression on the coaches and she would be given another chance.
Needless to say.....we are no longer with this team. I learned a lot that season LOL
For some coaches, it is all about winning $3 trophies. Luckily, my DD does not play for one (anymore!).
- Jul 26, 2010
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Yes, you hit it on the head. This was exactly why the org president came and coached the tournament, he wanted to lead by example and show the coaching staff what he expected. It was clear that winning was not his goal, but the fact that they did it "his way", played the younger players, and still came on top drove the point home.
Don't get me wrong, my kid isn't the #1 pitcher, before, or after this tournament, but she is a much better pitcher because of the experience. Hopefully, when she is 15 and throwing as well as the current 15 year old #1, she will remember what it was like to be the 13 yo #3 and help her team rally behind the youngster.
-W
Last edited:
- Jan 15, 2009
- 584
- 0
I know you've already probably thought of this but those coaches (unintentionally) did her a huge favor. Not many kids can put that kind of experience in the memory banks and draw on it later. Can't imagine that anyone doubting her will affect her performance much in the future and IME most of the kids who become great need some chip on their shoulder to inspire them. I'm not saying seek out that kind of coaching, but be greatful that someone challenged your kid and she rose to it and realize that doesn't happen all that often in the molly coddling world of youth sports (especially girls youth sports)
- Jun 18, 2010
- 2,623
- 38
Thanks for all of the input and stories shared. I agree with the majority that the HC should try for equal playing time as much as possible, especially at this B level. Up to this point, the only complaints have come from the assistant coach, and not from the players or parents. It seemed like everyone was satisfied with how the HC substituted in the fall.
When you're playing in single elimination tournaments, where you play 3 on Saturday in order to seed for Sunday's SE, whether you're Class A or B, we always play to win on Sunday! And that means we play our best 9. Sometimes that #1 pitcher doesn't start another position when she's not pitching, so maybe we use 10 in all. Class A or B, there's just no reason to play the last 3 kids on your roster's depth charts when - if you lose the 8 AM game - you're going home. Parents may not know A from B, but they sure do know what losing looks like.
I've also played a fair amount of USSSA, and after I played just one game and used those 2 EP's to give me 11 in a lineup, I told my asst. coach to shoot me if I ever did that again! Such a lonngg time getting back around to the top of the order.
Saturday is for getting everybody playing time, and Sunday is about playing the best we've got to win as many as we can. Other than special tournaments (States, NQ'ers, certain other DE tournaments), my kids and their parents know that they'll play at least 2 full games every Saturday. That's tough to do sometimes (OK, more than sometimes), but they've paid the same as everybody else to have their kids learn. And I don't give kids 3 innings here and 3 innings there. That's rec league nonsense, as far as I am concerned. Your kid gets two full games, and during the third game she can root on her team. Has worked very nicely for me for years.
I've also played a fair amount of USSSA, and after I played just one game and used those 2 EP's to give me 11 in a lineup, I told my asst. coach to shoot me if I ever did that again! Such a lonngg time getting back around to the top of the order.
Saturday is for getting everybody playing time, and Sunday is about playing the best we've got to win as many as we can. Other than special tournaments (States, NQ'ers, certain other DE tournaments), my kids and their parents know that they'll play at least 2 full games every Saturday. That's tough to do sometimes (OK, more than sometimes), but they've paid the same as everybody else to have their kids learn. And I don't give kids 3 innings here and 3 innings there. That's rec league nonsense, as far as I am concerned. Your kid gets two full games, and during the third game she can root on her team. Has worked very nicely for me for years.
02Crush
Way past gone
Lots of good perspectives here. I will throw my hat in the ring. Although it is from a younger playing level.
In GA Fastpitch is a big sport. We have a ton of travel teams in all Ages and Tiers. We have A, B and C tiers.
C tier is mainly for 10U and 12U for newly formed teams in their first year. A few team will ride in this grouping for a while as they may friends coming out of rec ball (not the best talent but love the game) with an interest in playing in different places, tournaments, more games through the year b/c they love the sport and the like.
B tier is where a lot of teams land. These are the teams that represent the best of the their County or Small Area.
A tier teams represent the best of the best. The families travel in excess of 40+ miles on average to practice and play at this level. Some of our A teams in the state are solid and we are proud of them whenever we see them play on a regional or national stage.
As for me..I coach a new 10U team. We are an assortment of some of the best in our single age group (9) in our county coming out of rec ball. Based on our situation I am do not think we are the best. However even if we were the best we would still play what I call "Platoon" ball. I have committed to all the parents that in this our first year (fall and spring) we are committed to playing every player with an outfield and an infield position. If they wanted to pitch or catch they must support that with off the field lessons with a PC. After the fall we lost a few players. These were the parents who felt their kids were "Better" than others and thus needed to play more time in their infield roles than others. My commitment to this strategy cost us wins. We were a 300 team. We could have been a 700 team but development is what I am looking for. If I had a different philosophy and not so clearly expressed it with all families then I might agree with their complaints. But based on my choice as a coach I did not. I let them go by cutting one and letting the other go off into the sunset (I was threatened with leaving and I ignored it and let them look elsewhere) without any fanfare to another team.
We played C ball in Fall. We will play C ball in the Spring and pulse every third tournament in a B level to get beaten up a bit and stretch ourselves. When we reach summer everyone will tryout. Not for the team but for positions. Every position will be open. We will have given every player a chance to play infield and outfield and work through struggles and mistakes to improve. This "Platoon" ball also gives me an accurate assessment of what to teach and work on with each player. I do not care if every kids trys out for every position. As a matter of fact I encourage it.
In year two we will play with starters. 75% of innings will be played on a primary role or else we will never become good in every role on the field. That said we will always involve a 25% investment in back up assignments.
I say back up assignment b/c I do not know if we can run a squad with 15 players on our team. We ran 10 this fall to allow plenty of field time and are expanding to 11 for the Spring and Summer heat. The 10th and 11th players will be utility players that we train to to learn different roles. They will be the best among us mentally. I already know who they are based on what I have seen but may be surprised after springs play by others. These two will allows us to rotate in 2 inning increments throughout the field and rest people throughout the day. I think this will work. It is a ton of work for me to plan out and develop and it will take a long time (not months...years) but I think by 12U it will work. We will probably live and die with 11 players.
You see I ask myself...when was the last time (and how often) have I seen the Dream Team of the best, biggest, fastest and most talented won the sup title....They do not ....It is always a team of core talent and position players who understand their role on the squad and what it adds. I am looking for team unity as it creates movement on the field like it was choreographed to music.This wins games.
When someone is injured and it jeopardizes our playing we will look for fill ins if we have to play. Not that we want that but it is available and we will use it as a tool.
Everything I am doing it to create a family with a core group and build to being as competitive as we can be once we land in 12U. That may be B tier or A tier. I do not know and do not have a crystal ball to tell. However, we will play hard and learn. I am eternally patient and know the long term goal. I am merely looking for parents who understand this and are willing to help the team grow.
In GA Fastpitch is a big sport. We have a ton of travel teams in all Ages and Tiers. We have A, B and C tiers.
C tier is mainly for 10U and 12U for newly formed teams in their first year. A few team will ride in this grouping for a while as they may friends coming out of rec ball (not the best talent but love the game) with an interest in playing in different places, tournaments, more games through the year b/c they love the sport and the like.
B tier is where a lot of teams land. These are the teams that represent the best of the their County or Small Area.
A tier teams represent the best of the best. The families travel in excess of 40+ miles on average to practice and play at this level. Some of our A teams in the state are solid and we are proud of them whenever we see them play on a regional or national stage.
As for me..I coach a new 10U team. We are an assortment of some of the best in our single age group (9) in our county coming out of rec ball. Based on our situation I am do not think we are the best. However even if we were the best we would still play what I call "Platoon" ball. I have committed to all the parents that in this our first year (fall and spring) we are committed to playing every player with an outfield and an infield position. If they wanted to pitch or catch they must support that with off the field lessons with a PC. After the fall we lost a few players. These were the parents who felt their kids were "Better" than others and thus needed to play more time in their infield roles than others. My commitment to this strategy cost us wins. We were a 300 team. We could have been a 700 team but development is what I am looking for. If I had a different philosophy and not so clearly expressed it with all families then I might agree with their complaints. But based on my choice as a coach I did not. I let them go by cutting one and letting the other go off into the sunset (I was threatened with leaving and I ignored it and let them look elsewhere) without any fanfare to another team.
We played C ball in Fall. We will play C ball in the Spring and pulse every third tournament in a B level to get beaten up a bit and stretch ourselves. When we reach summer everyone will tryout. Not for the team but for positions. Every position will be open. We will have given every player a chance to play infield and outfield and work through struggles and mistakes to improve. This "Platoon" ball also gives me an accurate assessment of what to teach and work on with each player. I do not care if every kids trys out for every position. As a matter of fact I encourage it.
In year two we will play with starters. 75% of innings will be played on a primary role or else we will never become good in every role on the field. That said we will always involve a 25% investment in back up assignments.
I say back up assignment b/c I do not know if we can run a squad with 15 players on our team. We ran 10 this fall to allow plenty of field time and are expanding to 11 for the Spring and Summer heat. The 10th and 11th players will be utility players that we train to to learn different roles. They will be the best among us mentally. I already know who they are based on what I have seen but may be surprised after springs play by others. These two will allows us to rotate in 2 inning increments throughout the field and rest people throughout the day. I think this will work. It is a ton of work for me to plan out and develop and it will take a long time (not months...years) but I think by 12U it will work. We will probably live and die with 11 players.
You see I ask myself...when was the last time (and how often) have I seen the Dream Team of the best, biggest, fastest and most talented won the sup title....They do not ....It is always a team of core talent and position players who understand their role on the squad and what it adds. I am looking for team unity as it creates movement on the field like it was choreographed to music.This wins games.
When someone is injured and it jeopardizes our playing we will look for fill ins if we have to play. Not that we want that but it is available and we will use it as a tool.
Everything I am doing it to create a family with a core group and build to being as competitive as we can be once we land in 12U. That may be B tier or A tier. I do not know and do not have a crystal ball to tell. However, we will play hard and learn. I am eternally patient and know the long term goal. I am merely looking for parents who understand this and are willing to help the team grow.
- Feb 3, 2011
- 1,880
- 48
Screwball, he didn't say that the non-starters would play only 25% of the time. With 63 player-innings per game, if he does completely equal playing time for an 11-player roster, that would be about 82% playing time for everyone, regardless of position. Most should be happy with that amount of innings. It's my opinion that you're being a little harsh in your criticism of a guy who admits that he put winning aside in 1st-year 10u in order to make sure everyone got playing time in both infield and outfield.
I think it's a great idea to put down the intentions in writing for the parents and players to see in advance, so that they'll know what they're signing up for. Anyone who doesn't like the setup doesn't have to have their DD try out or accept an offer to join the team, but if a great coach was offering a 3- to 4-year commitment to my DD, I'd sign immediately if that's what DD wanted to do.
I think it's a great idea to put down the intentions in writing for the parents and players to see in advance, so that they'll know what they're signing up for. Anyone who doesn't like the setup doesn't have to have their DD try out or accept an offer to join the team, but if a great coach was offering a 3- to 4-year commitment to my DD, I'd sign immediately if that's what DD wanted to do.
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