Substituting on a competitive team.

[SnocatzDad]

Pool play is where everyone gets playing time. For eliminations, put your best team on the field.

Ding Ding Ding!! Winner!!! I would add that you can argue that even elimination games in the fall be treated as pool play and that you have to plan your elimination rostering according to how many games you might play, you shouldn't plan to use the same lineup 5 games in the same day even if they are all elimination. Likely swapping out pitchers and catchers will mean shuffling other defensive positions as well and by game 5 your back up 2nd baseman might be better fresh than your starting 2nd basemen who is wiped out and if game 5 is the championship you might want to plan out your earlier substitutions to give you a reasonably balanced and strong lineup at the final game.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Curious - Maybe I am exhibiting my green understandings compared to you folks but what is the reference to TB "A" vs "B" ? (maybe I have just revealed I am not from the West coast or south ;-)

In my little understanding circle here in the midwest we have rec-ball, TB that covers mostly non-overnight-at-a-hotel circuit, and then the "crazies" like my family that just has to see Colorado & ASA nationals every year.

DD & I have spanned across all these three levels over the years and have been in both a prime and supporting roles in each one of those levels. The key to me is saying-what-you're-doing and then doing-what-your-saying (as a coach). I have found that in all the three levels I describe here there is half the folks siding with "fair-play" and half the folks siding with "play-to-win". It's like a holy war or a Republican/Democrat debate with no resolution ever found....

 

[starsnuffer]

B ball is not about winning, it's about giving kids an opportunity to play competitive ball, especially those kids who couldn't afford the exorbitant fees for A ball.

Even for A teams, fall ball is not about winning, at all. Fall ball is all about player development and preparing for the next year. Players can't develop if they don't play. The only incentive coaches have to "win" is to make sure you play more then 1 game on Sunday. Usually, the best players go in for the first game on Sunday, and that's the only game that really matters. All bets are off after that. If that next game on Sunday is in late innings and close, it's a good idea to try to win that one as well, to get the chance for another game, which means more development time.

Tournament trophies do not matter, at all. There are no championships on the line in the fall.

-W

 

[BB875]

I have coached 2 TB teams & now I'm down to just one team that is comprised of kids over a larger than normal(relatively speaking of course) geographic area. I consider us "A" level at the 14U division. We have 11 kids on the team and we play almost entirely USSSA tourneys so I can play everyone every game (9 + 2 AP). We bat everyone and do free substitutions with a ton of rotating every inning. The team is blessed with a load of talent that works hard in practice.

At the beginning of the fall season we picked up 1 kid at try-outs to make the 11 players. I would consider her the weakest player, but a true asset because of her attitude and hustle. All of the coaches agreed we should give her a shot. However, I had a discussion with her and her folks when I offered her a spot that her play time might be reduced on Sundays, just to lay the ground work. It never happened. She played every game as I described above. Her ability and confidence increase a lot over the fall. I believe the investment in her growth will help out the team in the spring.

BTW, in out final tourney she made a diving catch in RF to keep us in the semi-final game...We pulled out a win and went on to win the championship game.

 

[sluggers]

Curious - Maybe I am exhibiting my green understandings compared to you folks but what is the reference to TB "A" vs "B" ? (maybe I have just revealed I am not from the West coast or south ;-)

An "A" team plays in the top level travel team tournaments. "B" team plays in lower level tournaments. In the past, an "A" team was composed of kids from all over the place, while a "B" team was composed of players from a single city or town.

Generally, a "B" team would be expected to play in tournaments very close to the team's home, while an "A" team would travel over a larger area.

The level of softball played by "B" teams varies quite a bit geographically. A "B" team in California could be much better than some "A" teams from the upper midwest.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

To the point about "fall should not be about winning" in A teams too => It's been two consecutive years last fall tourneys in a row where my DD's team got eventually hammered by a lingering all-older team there to win a trophy before having to move up an age level at the end of the calendar year. The last one in TN it was an exposure tourney where I heard most of the opposing players already had their scholarships. (I guess you could make an argument that at least one player on that team didn't have a scholarship so they were doing it for them....) But I think "winning" is still a strong determining factor for many many teams coaching staffs behavior regardless of the time of year.

I wish a saw more consistent behavior like you are describing starsnuff.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I agree with everyone that is pointing out that in B, you develop the player and play everyone. (And, yes, that should be as equal as possible.) If a girl doesn't start one game, she starts the next. Parents that think that their kid can break into the starting 9 on an upper division team, need to give it a shot.

 

[starsnuffer]

Here's an interesting recent story from my own life that is relative:

This fall my oldest daughter (recently turned 13) left my team and tried out for, and eventually got a spot on a 14u A team. (This was a mutual decision and we both agree that it is best for us, and unrelated to this story). My daughter was used to being a starter on her 12U B team, and thought she understood that she would have to earn her spot on her new team. The first few tournaments, she did not "get" the playing time she was used to. She played 2 games on Saturday (pitching one game usually) and played mostly outfield and the bench on Sunday for the typical tournament. She eventually earned more playing time by hitting very well and played a lot of 2nd and 3rd base. The team had a lot of older kids (14-15yo) and my daughter was pretty much the 3rd or 4th pitcher, so she did not get to pitch as much as she liked.

Fast forward to the USSSA state championship 15u tournament. DD played a lot and pitched her game on Saturday as usual (they went 3-0 on Saturday and seeded 1st). Sunday she hits a clutch 2 run double after time expired in the semi-final to come back from being down 4-3 to win the game and go on to the final. The head coach (the organization head coach was coaching for this game) tells her good job, she's pitching the final.

My daughter is freaking out at this point. She has zero confidence in her ability to pitch. She doesn't want to let down her team, she doesn't want to let down her coach. All of the assistant coaches are pissed (especially the coach/dad of pitcher #1, who calls pitches for the team). They (the assistant coaches) tell my daughter they have zero confidence, that she's starting, but that she's on a short leash. Assistant coach tells the catcher (who tells my daughter) that if she screws up at all, let him know, and he'll pull her. Even if he hadn't said this, the look on he coaches faces was clear that they did not "believe" she could do the job at hand. To be quite honest, I was a bit miffed myself, but my role here is as dad, not coach, so I do my part and take my daughter aside at her request (they had a 2 hour break before the final) and "pitch" with her a while. Mostly she's throwing and we're talking, getting her confidence up. I know she's not going to get any better in one session with dad before the game, but I'm glad she asked for help, cos I'm a dad.

So the game starts, I'm in left field, far away as I can be, doing my best not to pace and to keep my mouth shut. DD looks very nervous. I didn't mention that this was the first tournament she pitched at 43', second game pitched at that distance with the first being the day before. She shuts down the first three batters, the first two swung at the first pitch, a drop, each barely tapping the top of the ball for an easy infield out. The third batter strikes out. I hear the coach and dad of pitcher#1 exclaiming that she really dodged a bullet.

The game continues. DD pitches a perfect game for 6 innings. Each inning her team (who were also clearly skeptical of her pitching) rally behind her more and more, cheering her on louder each inning. DD finally gives up a walk in the 7th and then flubs an easy double play ball (hard hit ground ball right back to her, she turns towards second and. . . . hesitates, SS isn't there yet. Miss the out at 2 and the out at 1. She needs to trust her team, SS would have made it, but that's another lesson). They go on to win the game. The whole team played awesome, no errors, a lot good small ball (other pitcher was very good) and a few good clutch hits. Head coach gives the team trophy to daughter, who is smiling so much by the 5th inning that "her face hurts. She's having a blast, catcher is having a blast, they all just looked like they were having fun.

The moral of the story isn't that my kid is awesome (okay she is, I'm a dad). The moral is not that a 13 year old girl made a bunch of old men eat crow. The moral of the story is that if the head coach had listened to any of those assistants, parents, or "played to win", a young lady (in this case my daughter) would never had chance to pitch that game, prove to herself that she could do it, and gain a boat load of self-confidence. Her team wouldn't have known what it was like to rally around the underdog, and had a great time doing it. This is what youth sports is about. In this case, I was lucky, it was my kid, but it could be your kid, or some other parent's kid, it doesn't matter. We play a lot of games in travel ball, we have a lot of heroes. Coaches are enablers, teachers, and guides. In this case, a better coach then me made a decision that I would not have made, and I can't thank him enough.

-W

 

[Momo'sDad]

One of the things I see often on this forum is that some posters seem to want everyone else to follow their rules, when the definition of B teams vary greatly by location.

In my area of NorCal, large rosters on true B teams are not good for player development. Playing time should hardly be an issue when there are only 10-11 players on a team, especially when batting the roster. But even if you've got 15 players on this team, I would be surprised if players 7-10 are significantly better than 12-14.

With an 11-player roster, you should have no trouble getting a lot of playing time for everyone on the team.

From a developmental standpoint, the pitchers and catchers on my team get the most innings. Everyone else plays equally, give or take an inning or two. Different coaches are going to do things differently, though. While I think it's great for coaches to listen to feedback from assistants and parents, it's my opinion that the coach needs to have a core philosophy on player development that guides the decision-making on playing time at each position.

Knightsb, if that assistant and some of the parents want to be part of a true competitive team, they might be better off breaking away from the current group over the winter and form a team for A-level play or have their DDs compete for available slots on existing A teams.

 

[BB875]

Awesome story star!!! While reading the incredible day your DD had I was thinking about the old men eating crow. I sure hope the head coach has a discussion with them and how their actions are not in the best interest of the team...They need to be on a short leash.

All the best to your DD in the future!